Tracks versus Track Versions

[Barry]

Okay, this is one of those hairy topics that we'll need to deal with once and for all...

Take the song "Trouble Every Day".
This one has appeared on:
- Freak Out!
- Roxy & Elsewhere
- You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 5
- Does Humor Belong In Music?
- The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life

Each version has its own more or less different lyrics, has different musicians playing on it and is subject to/colored by the era in which it was played. How to deal with this? Obviously we'll need a separate page for each version.

Here's my suggestion:
The version that first appeared (in this case, on the Freak Out! album) becomes "the default". Meaning that we name that version simply "Trouble Every Day". For subsequent versions, we add the album on which it appeared between brackets. Yes - those dreaded brackets again, but I simply don't see a more elegant solution... So page-names for subsequent versions could be something like this:

- More Trouble Every Day (Roxy & Elsewhere)
- Trouble Every Day (You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 5)
- Trouble Every Day (Does Humor Belong In Music?)
- More Trouble Every Day (The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life)

Once again, it's far from elegant but I for one don't see a better solution.
All this is of course up for discussion - that is the precise reason of this post.

Agree? Disagree? Suggestions? Critique? Do you like long morning walks on the beach?

Let's hear it!

[emdebe]

My suggestion would be to also include Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!), just for "consistency" reasons.

Since you don't mention them, I suppose You Can't Do Disambiguation Pages Anymore?

PS: I do not like long morning walks on the beach.

[emdebe]

My suggestion would be to also include Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!), just for "consistency" reasons.

For "real" consistency, ALL track names should include an album name...  

PS: I do like long hot summer night walks on the beach.

[Barry]

My suggestion would be to also include Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!), just for "consistency" reasons.
Since you don't mention them, I suppose You Can't Do Disambiguation Pages Anymore?

If we're to have a single page for each song with the album on which it appeared within brackets (e.g. "Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!)" - then yes: we will definitely need {{disambig}} pages for guidance. Hell of a lot of work that, but hey...

[Bálint]

BUT:

I think the main point of view can be in Zappa's work the Conceptual Continuity stuff. That means (for me) that there are tons of "inner links" inside the songs, but it also means that any song can reappear at any time in any re-orchestration - and (in spite of the changes) its STILL THE SAME SONG. So: wouldn't it be good that there was only ONE page for Trouble Every Day, and - just like now - anyone can find his/her searches version by using the table of contents.

Yes, it means long-long pages, but with this automatic table of contents the wiki works a bit differently than the average ones. And this system  would say that this song is ONE song, although in diffenent incarnations.

Another idea: with the wiki structure I really miss the countinuation of songs, the "suites" that belong together: Don't Eat The Yellow Snow, the whole Civilization stuff, and so on. Wouldn' it be nice to put a link after this kind of songs leading to the one following it?

[emdebe]

Hell of a lot of work that, but hey...

Renaming existing pages...
Adjusting all references to the renamed pages, including track lists...
Cross-referencing of all track variations...

And then some:

Wouldn' it be nice to put a link after this kind of songs leading to the one following it?

[emdebe]

Maybe the way Román García Albertos structured his "Information Is Not Knowledge" site, formerly known as "FZ Lyrics & Elsewhere" (http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/), could be considered an alternative...

[Barry]

Maybe the way Román García Albertos structured his "Information Is Not Knowledge" site, formerly known as "FZ Lyrics & Elsewhere" (http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/), could be considered an alternative...

Well no.

With all due respect, his format (basically huge html pages with intra-page anchors leading to lyrics) leaves no room for comments. Let's try 'n do better than that!

[Bálint]

leaves no room for comments

Talking about comments: if we'd make diffenert pages to each and every version of the songs, what will happen to the notes & comments? Will they be repeated (copy - paste) to each page?

Does not it also lead to have ONE page per song, with all the versions in in?....

[Barry]

Does not it also lead to have ONE page per song, with all the versions in in?....

Balint: that would be the disambiguation pages we've been talking about - and yes: we would need such a page for each track which has multiple versions...

[emdebe]

If we go for...

Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!)
More Trouble Every Day (Roxy & Elsewhere)
Trouble Every Day (You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 5)
Trouble Every Day (Does Humor Belong In Music?)
More Trouble Every Day (The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life)

... we should also go for...

Trouble Every Day (Strictly Commercial)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Panta From Brain Police Meets Frank Zappa)
Trouble Every Day (The Old Masters Box I)
Trouble Every Day (Threesome No. 1)
Trouble Every Day (April '88 Sampler)
Trouble Every Day (You Can't Do That on the Radio Anymore0)
Trouble Every Day (FZ 25)
Trouble Every Day (Clean American Version )
Trouble Every Day (Kill Ugly Radio Some More)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Preg-Nant)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Battle of Eric Burdon & the Animals and the Mothers of Invention)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Who Are the Brain Police) - single
Who Are the Brain Police (Trouble Comin' Every Day) - single

... and...

Trouble Comin' Ev'ry Day (You Can't Kill The Bogeyman) ~ Cortex
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Pain & Paradise) ~ The Nighthawks
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Sing Sing) ~ The Honeymoon Killers
Trouble Coming Every Day (Vampires Stole My Lunch Money) ~ Mick Farren & The Deviants
Trouble Coming Every Day (Partial Recall) ~ Mick Farren & The Deviants
Trouble Coming Every Day (Human Garbage) ~ The Deviants
Trouble Every Day (Final Chapter) ~ Jack O'Fire
Trouble Every Day (Insanity Sauce) ~ Sheik Yerbouti
Trouble Every Day (The Big Note) ~ Sheik Yerbouti
Trouble Every Day (Zappanale #10) ~ Band Project Hamburg
Trouble Every Day (Zappanale #10) ~ Sheik Yerbouti
Trouble Every Day (Sarek) ~ Sarek
Trouble Every Day (Ernst) ~ Ernst
Trouble Every Day (Vol. 3) ~ Nazo Nazo Shokai
Trouble Every Day (My New Life) ~ Eugene Chadbourne
Trouble Every Day (My Dog Popper) ~ Fifi
Trouble Every Day (Frank You, Thank!) ~ FLa Macchina Ossuta
Trouble Every Day (Sílenství) ~ Milan Hlavsa
Trouble Every Day (Bob Row Trio)
Trouble Everyday (Daddy Longlegs) ~ Tumbleweed
Trouble Everyday (Avenue Breakdown) ~ Backbone Slip
Trouble Everyday (Quite Mad To Be Frank) ~ The Madmen
Trouble Everyday (Rockin' My Life Away) ~ George Thorogood & The Destroyers
Trouble Everyday (More Songs From The Campfire) ~ The Muffin Men
Trouble Everyday (Mystery Disc) ~ Bleeding Romeo
Trouble Everyday (In Cerca Di Mr. Zappa) ~ Pipco

+ probably an abundance of bootleg versions...

[emdebe]

A an alternative we could just create 4 {{disambig}} pages for guidance...

More Trouble Every Day

More Trouble Every Day (Roxy & Elsewhere)
More Trouble Every Day (The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life)

Trouble Comin' Ev'ry Day

Trouble Comin' Ev'ry Day (You Can't Kill The Bogeyman) ~ Cortex
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Battle of Eric Burdon & the Animals and the Mothers of Invention)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Pain & Paradise) ~ The Nighthawks
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Panta From Brain Police Meets Frank Zappa)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Preg-Nant)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Sing Sing) ~ The Honeymoon Killers
Trouble Comin' Every Day (Who Are the Brain Police) - single
Who Are the Brain Police (Trouble Comin' Every Day) - single
Trouble Coming Every Day (Human Garbage) ~ The Deviants
Trouble Coming Every Day (Partial Recall) ~ Mick Farren & The Deviants
Trouble Coming Every Day (Vampires Stole My Lunch Money) ~ Mick Farren & The Deviants

Trouble Every Day

Trouble Every Day (April '88 Sampler)
Trouble Every Day (Bob Row Trio)
Trouble Every Day (Clean American Version )
Trouble Every Day (Does Humor Belong In Music?)
Trouble Every Day (Ernst) ~ Ernst
Trouble Every Day (Final Chapter) ~ Jack O'Fire
Trouble Every Day (Frank You, Thank!) ~ FLa Macchina Ossuta
Trouble Every Day (Freak Out!)
Trouble Every Day (FZ 25)
Trouble Every Day (Insanity Sauce) ~ Sheik Yerbouti
Trouble Every Day (Kill Ugly Radio Some More)
Trouble Every Day (My Dog Popper) ~ Fifi
Trouble Every Day (My New Life) ~ Eugene Chadbourne
Trouble Every Day (Sarek) ~ Sarek
Trouble Every Day (Sílenství) ~ Milan Hlavsa
Trouble Every Day (Strictly Commercial)
Trouble Every Day (The Big Note) ~ Sheik Yerbouti
Trouble Every Day (The Old Masters Box I)
Trouble Every Day (Threesome No. 1)
Trouble Every Day (Vol. 3) ~ Nazo Nazo Shokai
Trouble Every Day (You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol. 5)
Trouble Every Day (You Can't Do That on the Radio Anymore0)
Trouble Every Day (Zappanale #10) ~ Band Project Hamburg
Trouble Every Day (Zappanale #10) ~ Sheik Yerbouti

Trouble Everyday

Trouble Everyday (Avenue Breakdown) ~ Backbone Slip
Trouble Everyday (Daddy Longlegs) ~ Tumbleweed
Trouble Everyday (In Cerca Di Mr. Zappa) ~ Pipco
Trouble Everyday (More Songs From The Campfire) ~ The Muffin Men
Trouble Everyday (Mystery Disc) ~ Bleeding Romeo
Trouble Everyday (Quite Mad To Be Frank) ~ The Madmen
Trouble Everyday (Rockin' My Life Away) ~ George Thorogood & The Destroyers

[Bálint]

Wowwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!...

:-)))

That looks terrible!... :-)

I think only the official versionn should be mentioned - why bother about the bootlegs and the covers? (And the compilations? Those are not "versions", I think...)

[emdebe]

I think only the official versionn should be mentioned - why bother about the bootlegs and the covers? (And the compilations? Those are not "versions", I think...)

Some people do care for them.
IMHO, all are part of the FZ world.

Some tribute & cover bands actually do a great job.

If tribute & cover bands and/or bootlegs can't reside at the wiki.killuglyradio.com, then I would like to repeat an earlier suggestion to create a wiki.boots.killuglyradio.com and/or wiki.tributes.killuglyradio.com.

[Bálint]

I might misunderstand these disambugiuoxiangouix pages :-), since its a too lng word for me...

:-)

But: I think theree is one song: Trouble Every Day; it has some versions: More Trouble etc. - thats OK. But: the ones released on boots and cover CD's... I dont think of them as "versions" that should be listed like you did abouve - it should be just noted:

Appeared od these boots:
- this
- that
- another

Appeared on cover albums:
- this
- that
- and that one.

I think. Its craaaaaaazy seeing that much "trouble" written under each other...

:-)