A Message From Zappa Patio

[Barry]

Okay, so here's some news for you:

David, the guy that took over Zappa Patio recently, just dropped me an email in which he asks me if I'd be willing to take over the ZP's bootleg section. He says:

I'm simply not an expert at that subject at *all*, submissions come in far faster than I can process them, and the current layout that I inherited from Bossk...isn't, err, too great (...)

I think we can pull this off, and I think the wiki-way is a perfect vehicle for it. But before I say the yes-word, I'd like to know if you guys are willing to take on this task. Some things to consider:
* there is a constant inflow of submissions, which will need to be handled as promptly as possible. My idea is to set up a gmail account where all submissions can be mailed off to; and to give out login/pass to all those who are willing to help maintain this thing - so that all participants can check for new submissions at all time.
* if we take this on, we're basically given sole responsibility of what is probably one of the most consulted FZ-resources on the net. How's that for a load, Fanny? ;-)

I guess I'm looking to get some support from the rest of you guys here, as there is no way I can maintain this thing myself.

Whaddayathink?

[emdebe]

On the one hand: this is a Wiki thing. Once some "Hercules" has done the initial, once in a lifetime, "conversion", ANYBODY can post updates. I don't think there's a need for a centralized e-mail account: people can update the Wiki any time they like.

On the other hand: this could be the best publicity we can get in a long time to come.

[Barry]

Yeah well it's the "Hercules" part that scares me a little...

[emdebe]

Yeah well it's the "Hercules" part that scares me a little...

I have a truckload of "things to do". I think you or Duncan should be concerned about the "disambiguation pages". Then there’s the "Tours", the "Bibliography", the "Biography" and a myriad of other stuff, that’s a-waiting in the hallway...

I think we definitely need some FRESH ANTS here!

[Barry]

Just keeping you up to date...:

David replied:

> Are you sure the Wiki is the best idea? I'm not entirely sold on Wiki
> as the Great New Democratic Internet Concept, esp. when disagreements
> arise...

My answer:

Yeah, disagreements may arise (there already have been some discussions at the wiki), but as long as the discussion remains polite and reaches consensus, I don't have a problem with that.
So for me, _theoretically_ the wiki is a very good option (decentralized, everybody adds/edits/doublechecks all the time) - only problem I'm having is getting some people enthusiastic about taking over the ZP bootleg section. Not that surprizing actually when you think of it! ;-)
So I'm not sure what to do next... There's currently about 5 of us actively working on the wiki; I was going to eventually (and gradually) add the ZP bootleg stuff there anyway. But as for "officially taking over that section" - I don't think it's gonna happen the way things look now. I mean I wouldn't want to say "yes", only to see this incredible resource degrade because I don't have enough time or because I can't find any others to aid in this...

Looks to me like this is one proverbial bridge too far...

[emdebe]

Where are all the other Freaks & Motherf*#@%! when you need them?

As I said before: where are all the other Freaks & Motherf*#@%! when you need them?

Just to remind myself to say:

Where are all the other Freaks & Motherf*#@%! when you need them?

[Barry]

Well either we're [[[Category:Scary|scaring]]] them too [[[These Strange Tags Make Me Feel Very Uneasy|much]]] with all these [[[Category:What The Hell Are They Talking About|Wiki Tags]]] - [[[Disambig|or]]] they're just being plain {{stub-Lazy}}.

What do you [[[Talk:Freaks & Motherf*#@%!|think]]]?

[Chris]

Uh oh. Poor ol' Barry's finally reached the point of no return.

[emdebe]

Well either we're [[[Category:Scary|scaring]]] them too [[[These Strange Tags Make Me Feel Very Uneasy|much]]] with all these [[[Category:What The Hell Are They Talking About|Wiki Tags]]] - [[[Disambig|or]]] they're just being plain {{stub-Lazy}}. What do you [[[Talk:Freaks & Motherf*#@%!|think]]]?

I think maybe it is time to put together an inventory about the GOOD, the BAD and the UGLY of the Wiki Jawaka. The purpose of this inventory would be to find out what is keeping people from contributing en mass. In other words: what can we possibly improve to attract more ants (read: helpful brains, hands and feet)?

What do we think is GOOD, BAD or UGLY about the Wiki Jawaka?

Is it good because it is about Frank Zappa? Is it good because its intentions are good? Is it bad because of the way it is implemented? Is it bad because it lacks ease-of-use? Is it ugly because of its run of the mill layout (except for the logo, of course)? Is it good because of the helpfulness of its Founding Fathers?

Let’s start a new thread about this, so that the VOX POPULI can speak-out now...

[UniMuta]

This is an excellent opportunity. And if you're serious about the Wiki, you should go for it.

The last year or so, I wasn't too thrilled about where the Zappa Patio was going, so I started mentioning the latest bootlegs in the "latest news" section at UM (www.united-mutations.com), and I even found the time to add a bunch of older bootlegs in the http://www.united-mutations.com/z/frank_zappa/frank_zappa_bootlegs.htm section.

reminder -> the Wiki needs a "latest news" section.
(maybe the UM "Latest News" section could serve for both UM & the Wiki? But this would mean that all the info that is up there should find its way into the Wiki...)

The biggest Zappa Patio problem is the fact that the site is mentioning a lot of home-burned CDR material.
Home-burnded CDR's should not be considered bootlegs.
If everyone can add data, you will get a lot of these titles mixed with the 'real' bootlegs. Listing the CDR-bootlegs (please note the contradiction in term) is a never-ending and useless story.

reminder -> the BTB albums aren't bootlegs either.

One of the possibilities would be to divide the bootleg section in "LP & CD", "DVD" and "home-burned or questionable material".
For what it's worth, UM will be mentioning four brand-new bootleg CDs tonight. It would be great to see them cut & pasted in the wiki. (including pictures, of course).

Embedee is right. All you need is a structure and some basic rules.

The Freaks & Motherf*#@%! will follow.

-- UniMuta

[Barry]

Good points all of them UniMuta, thanks.

I myself however have no expertise whatsoever in the field of trading/bootlegs (I enjoy the occasional download here and there but that's about it) -- so I would need someone knowledgeable enough to permanently keep an eye on this particular section.

Then there's the daunting task of reproducing everything that's already at ZP inside the wiki... I simply can't take this on by myself - between work, Hot Poop, KUR, TheBigNote and other tasks at the wiki, it's simply too much.

So again: bring on the ants please...

[Barry]

Oh and as for latest news: I wouldn't put the news itself on the Main_Page, but I would put a big fat link in one of those yellow boxes to a page that does list the news. On that page, it would just be a matter of cutting/pasting your html, no?

As for images: I'm still holding off the boat on that one - for now. I want to get an idea first of how big a bandwidth/diskspace-hog this whole wiki thing will turn into...

[maroual]

The current Wiki Jawaka structure seems very scary to me,
this is the reason why I did not put any line in it yet.

The patio and FZLyrics are more visual, synthetic, colored and pictural ...

I am trying to figure out how I could help you as a small ant ;-)

[maroual]

Hi,

The small ant I am just did a Zappa Patio => Zappa Wiki copy/paste (from http://lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/freakout.html to http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/index.php/Freak_Out%21#Versions)

Could you guys tell me how you feel about it ?

Maybe a few structural changes would be necessary in order to avoid the page to become too huge.

If most of you think I did crap it's easy to go back with just one click.

If you think I should continue, please just tell me. But I guess we need the Patio explicit approval before to do this.

FYI. It took me 1 hour to do this "copy/paste". So I assume that the whole vinylvscds section would take around 150 hours. The whole bootleg section would take 50 hours. But I could also use a HTML to Wiki converter in order to accelerate this job (perl Convert::Wiki for instance).

[maroual]

Some could also say the Patio owner's initial request was to go towards the bootlegs section. But I can't figure out this Wiki project with 95% of the info about bootlegs and only 5% about the commercial releases.