FZ wouldn't like this

[sharleena]

Right on Bob
I'm a law student and Bob's understanding of censorship comports with what I learned in my Constitutional Law class regarding the First Amendment.

I am not a law student but i agree on Bob assertions too.
I worked on a magazine for about 12 years; do you know, Isaac, how many times *my vision* of things was different than *the guy in charge* (the general editor/director) vision of things? Countless. However, i do think now that he was ALWAYS right. Just because of the fact he was the guy in charge, and he was responsible for the contents on the magazine, and the consequences they could carry; and he'd have to be SURE about those contents, and sometimes *my vision* of things were not the same as his. Even when i was, oh SO SURE *my stuff* was better than his...and stubbornly tried to keep my position like if it was my mission in life.

So, do you know what i learned from that experience? I learned to not take myself so seriously; i learned to accept other's opinions on my work; i learned to accept that not always *my vision* was the better/clever/appropriated one for that medium. And i learned that i had (and have) to much things to learn still.

The fact that this thread has had so many replies proves that we care...I for one don't want to lose any single poster on this forum (and yes, i'm glad Guac is back, and also Bob, who's been away for a while. Your Kegelmasters has been kept out of dust by myself personnally; time to get back to your routines, gentlemen!   )
 
Isaac: I'd have been very happy at your age if i'd have had a place like this to interact and participate and learn stuff (which you can do here in the forums and on HotPoop as a "commenter"). I think, and this is just my opinion, aing?, that you are very cool and intelligent, but still have to develop a bit more your sense of humor. Don't take yourself that seriously!
This is just a stupid Zappa site...

Sharl

[SOFA]

Ahem........................ where to start ?

Guac! Great to have you back, man!

As a consequence he has disappeared. I sincerely regret having made that post in anger and its repercussions for the individual concerned.

Time for me to interject a little something here and maybe it's not my place, but...
I'm one of the very few nuts fortunate enough to have been a member of this looney bin from damn near the get-go, and I'm proud to say that I've been associated with Barry, and his vision, since - well - since it was just Barry and a vision.
I discovered (quite by accident; ya gotta love those accidental "Reply to All" hits) Frankie's identity soon after he and Barry began their fantasy oddessy. Thanks to that 'glitch', I made a new friend - as I had in Barry - and we have communicated regularly now for several years - as I have with Barry.
And I can tell ya, guac, you mustn't feel any responsibility in Frankie's departure. He'd expressed to me on a number of occasions that he was tiring of the 'role', and looking for a way out...

Sometimes, it's just best to stay away from your computer when you've got too much beer / angst on board.

Trying to tie this all together: First off, I have not always stood in agreement with Bobagain, but - dammit - when he's right, the man's right. Thanks, Bobagain, for crystalizing the issue of 'censorship'.
Taking oneself too seriously (I'm raising my hand here, and shaking it vigorously), ThingFish, is something of which I'm guilty all too often. I imposed a bit of an exile for myself about a year or so ago because [see guac's quote above, and replace "beer" with "emotion" and there you have it] of some views expressed in Hot Poop, and here and I didn't want to a) work myself into a petulant frenzy every day, and b) drive away any posters with my often ascerbic commentary.
(Damn, it's good to be here!)
Frankie worked admirably hard to bring me back "into the fold" - and the one thing he kept repeating over and over in his email was, "why do you have to take this so seriously?" I - of course - have said this to him more than once, since his retirement. His answer has been / is: "Who's taking it so seriously?"
And he's right...
God, I used to love it when a tough one appeared in Hot Plate - just to see what he'd say. It never occured to me that the scene had changed for him, and that he wasn't enjoying being Frankie anymore. But, that's the reason for his retirement, not anything that you said, guac. Knowing him the way I do, I can tell ya that he'd have simply said "go fuck yourself" (he's good at that; I guess that's why he was Frankie) if he wanted to remain Frankie.
I can tell you this, Frankie is still with us. But thanks to the wonderful job done by the KUR Poster Protection and Relocation Program, he is enjoying a new life (pun intended) and new identity.

And i learned that i had (and have) to much things to learn still.

Can there be any wonder why the world adores this woman?
Peace out, Y'all!
SOFA

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

This is just a stupid Zappa site...

"...And that's the way we like it!

A green rosetta..."


I recall a HP post from Sharleena stating, "Relax, life is too short to be getting all hot and bothered."  I'm paraphrasing here, but these are words to live by...

I myself am guilty of not following this sometimes.


So, what's all this about censorship, anyway?  An open and free discussion of the subject seems to be taking place here.  

While we're more or less on the subject:  sometimes it is sensible to restrain one's own comments for the sake of others.  For example, Bob Again conjured up one of the funniest bits of fiction I've read in a long time.  It was titled "BS - the dvd."  His entries were deleted (I assume he did it himself) without advance notice, explanation or fanfare.  I thought it was a shame because it had me in tears (of laughter).  However, I can understand how some statements contained in that thread could have rubbed someone (or two) the wrong way or perhaps hurt their feelings.

Does this mean I should call him a "self-censor" or start ranting about the First Amendment just because I have no inkling as to why he deleted his entries?  Fuck, no.  It is his right to post, modify or delete his statements as he wishes, provided it's okay with Barry and follows the rules one agrees to by signing up with KUR.  By the same token, Bob Again has no obligation to explain why he deleted what he deleted.  If his actions were a result of what I assumed above, I'd say it was a noble gesture on his part, although I thought his script was funny as hell and wish I could read it again.

"Not exactly free...more like available for a limited time only!"



P.S. Guacamole: welcome back, matey.

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

Gag me with a fucking Kegelmeister!!!  Give it a rest, will ya?  

For someone claiming to be so intelligent, you sure do have a bad case of narrow-mindedness.  I suggest you go back and read some of the posts of the people WILLING TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU before you start complaining again.  I'm starting to get dizzy from running around in circles.

It seems to me you register only what you want to register.  Anything else that doesn't directly support your argument just doesn't get included into the equation.  That form of "selective hearing" is detrimental to true open communication.

I wouldn't dream of calling you stupid or a baby.  I WILL, however, call you bull-headed, egocentric, immature and mildly annoying.

...and what's more:  if Barry decides that last statement was inappropriate and wishes to delete it, that's fine with me.


"I've got troubles of my own," I said, "and you can't help me out.
So take your accusations and your cheap persuasions
and ram it up your snout!"

[Jeff]

Thing-fish.  Start your own site.  It would be the ultimate showing of your Zappa-fandom.  That way, no one could "censor" you.  I'm sure many would visit if you planned on posting MP3's.  Me, for example.

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

Start your own site.  It would be the ultimate showing of your Zappa-fandom.  That way, no one could "censor" you.

Great suggestion.  That is a positive, constructive solution that needed to be said.  Thanks, Jeff.  Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum.

[Bobo]

... if Barry didn't have to violate my constitutional rights.

For one, Barry is NOT an US citizen and he created, maintains and pays for this baby. This means that:
- your "constitutional rights" do not apply. Last time I checked the US did not own the world.
- Barry is boss so he can limit traffic on bandwidth issues.

Thing-fish.  Start your own site.  It would be the ultimate showing of your Zappa-fandom.  That way, no one could "censor" you.  I'm sure many would visit if you planned on posting MP3's.  Me, for example.

But please post the link to your website when you're done. Let's see you handling 25Gb of traffic in one week and paying for it. Or maybe you already donated plenty of money to KUR

[bertanya]

I was banned from Barry's weblog for posting a funny picture.

As the kur polling meister, how about creating a poll to see what the kur voters think is the most important issue here.  My suggestion for options would include whether barry is right to be your big brother, after he has given posting rights to his publication, whether the picture really is funny, whether the kur office should be unionised to reduce staff turnover, and whether the kur interview process should be reviewed.

I'm sure polling meister can be a vocation where wit and intelligence can be expressed.

[SOFA]

I wouldn't dream of calling you stupid or a baby.  I WILL, however, call you bull-headed, egocentric, immature and mildly annoying.

I have to take back what I said before.
Dude, you are stupid - supremely stupid. And "mildly annoying" is the understatement of the year.
It's a shame that there's no "kill file" feature here that could simply shut you up for good...
SOFA

[slime]

would frank give a fuck about this....probably not imo

ya gotta chill out dude, try this 12-step program:

1)  deep breath
2)  deep breath
3)  deep breath
4)  put the flintsones on tv
5)  turn down the sound
6)  check out that betty rubble
7)  deep breath
8 )  deep breath
9)  turntable on
10) headphones on yer head
11) cue up the sleep dirt vinyl
12) crank up the volume


if that don't woik, you could always move to montana, you wouldn't have no boss

[Joeggs]

Hey all, first post and prolly not my last. Great site cool forums and the mandatory 35yr old flamer pretending to be 13. Isaac, you need to get laid. Just spreading the dissension.

[Chris]

So you're sitting in a theater, watching a movie, and some guy keeps yelling at the screen, throwing food around and making it impossible for you to pay attention. If he's removed by the ushers or security, is this censorship? Nope. Everyone else in the place is in favor of him being kicked out.

Your Constitutional rights aren't shit when you're inside a forum owned and run by someone else. Unless you're paying Barry for a service, you can't even get him on discriminatory grounds (i.e. if he were to say "no Greeks allowed on the forum"). There's no fee, and KUR isn't funded by taxes (although it should be!), so your "rights" don't apply if you're overtly willing to act childish, annoying and half-witted, and of course to post things irrelevant to the subject matter. If we didn't attempt to concentrate on Zappa here, this place would become like the zappa.com forums, which would be a terrible shame.

Having said that, you might want to check out that forum, Isaac. It seems to be right up your alley.

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

If we didn't attempt to concentrate on Zappa here, this place would become like the zappa.com forums, which would be a terrible shame.

Having said that, you might want to check out that forum, Isaac. It seems to be right up your alley.

Uhh...Chris,  I hate to bust your bubble, but he already WAS there.  I checked a couple of threads and it seemed to me that most people were bothered by him there too.  The main gripe there seemed to revolve around the whole Sleep Dirt LP versus CD discussion.  People got tired of it.  As a matter of fact, some of his entries were deleted.  

Hmmm....does that mean the official Frank Zappa site supports censorship?  Isaac, is it true?   Could it be?  Naw, I know what's up.  It isn't censorship!  Those guys at Zappa.com think you're an asshole.  

That's right!  You heard right!

Nine posters out of ten at your favorite Zappa fan site think Thing Fish24, a.k.a. Isaac Baranoff, should shut his hole because it appears he has absolutely no interest in communication and would rather whine and complain about some ficticious suppression.


(please check your spelling.)
 
I did ... and my spelling was correct. "constitutional" was not mis-spelled.

No, but "necessary," "receive," "whether" and "misspelled" were.


..."mildly annoying" is the understatement of the year.

Thanks, but the year has just begun, my friend.  Just wait 'till election time!


Wow. I can't believe so many Zappa fans are in favor of censorship.

Wow.  I just can't believe you are such a fool.  So many people here are willing to take you seriously and discuss at length about this whole situation.  It's just too bad that you don't pay attention and give us due respect by addressing our arguments.

Isaac, it is clear to me that you are here just to stir up the shit.  I don't think you really want to contribute anything constructive to the forum.  I think you enjoy manipulating other people through provocation.  I refuse to let your tantrum spoil my fun at KUR.  In the future, I will ignore all your posts.  This is not censorship; it is selective reading.  I will exercise my right to pass up your drivel.

If you're really 35 years old, you do need to get laid.  If you're thirteen, you need a spanking and house arrest for a month.
 

I've said my piece on the matter.

[Noolie]

ok, ok, ok this is entirely too painful.

We and more likely, myself are wasting our time here.  This thread has been similar to a car wreck.  You know you shouldn't look, you know it's going to be ugly, but you still take a peek and end up saying "I wish I hadn't seen that".

Thing Fish Isaac dude, you are taking this too seriously, and now people are having fun with you-no they are having fun "at" you.  If you are 35, you are acting like you are 13, if you are 13, stay inside typing you paranoid messages on your computer.  It is safer here.  Don't go outside and speak your mind or you will get thumped on and slapped by the children in your neighbourhood.  Hopefully you don't get shot by someone bearing their constitutional fire arm.

Silly, silly, silly.  I knew I shouldn't have peeked.

[handlebarjohnny]

No, I deleted those entries because I DIDN'T MAKE THOSE ENTRIES. Some asshole logged in with my user-name, found ONE POST where I said that I liked the Sleep Dirt CD better than the vinyl, and started an entire argument around it. I DON'T HATE THE SLEEP DIRT VINYL, I just think that the CD edition has more dynamics than the vinyl.

how the hell did they figure out your password?  i dont think the guys on the Z forum care enough or have enough spare time to do something like hack your posts.  it looked like a genuine thread to all of us.  i never really had a  problem with you Isaac, i even stuck up for you when people said you weren't 13.  if i my paraphrase my post:

paraphrase by johnoppel on the Z forum: "i tend to be the gullable type and believe people unless i KNOW they are lying, or have proven to me i cant trust them.  if you ARE 13, you are a pretty smart kid and know a lot about fz, i wish i listened to fz when i was 13.  if you arent 13, you are one of the best fake posters ever. (not that i condone fake posting )"

lately isaac youve been rubbing people on both forums the wrong way.  last nite i jumped on you for calling slime an asshole because he posted flash, "making you unable to reply."  that was TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR, imo.  my friendly advice is to watch how you phrase things, and what you call people, and they might start giving you more respect.  it works both ways in this world.