Another newbie

[timmo82]

Hello,
my name`s Tim, I'm 21 and from England and just got into Zappa (& Beefheart) in the last few months, cos I wanna discover exciting decent music instead of..er..the stereophonics.
So far I've got:
Hot Rats
Threesome Vol 1
Burnt Weeny Sandwich
One Size Fits All
You Are What You Is
(in that order)
I love HR, BWS, especially Willie The Pimp, Son of Mr Green Genes, Little House..
what albums should I get next if I like those?

WOIIFTM is damn great, as you already know. Is that Ian underwood on the right of Jimmy Carl Black on the cover, matching him with the burnt weeny insert it seems so..

I heard about the diffrent versions of YAWYI, now my cd Dumb All Over (one of my faves on there) is about 5.xx long [i should get exact time but i cant be arsed right now] but the booklet says 4.03, have i got the corrected version on this album? Amazon says this came out July 2002, so i ought to.

OSFA I'm not sure of yet, Pojama People & San Ber`dino are top notch but I dont think it's his best album ever as I've seen mentioned.

Adios for now,
Tim.

PS Zappa is Italian descent? Looks kind of jewish too.

[sharleena]

Hey there timmo82!
Welcome to the forums.
I tend to prefer OSFA over WOIIFTM, but then if i was you i'd buy:

Waka Jawaka
Freak Out!
Chunga's Revenge
Roxy & Elsewhere
Over-Nite Sensation
Apostrophe (')
Sheik Yerbouti
just to begin...
Give some time tho to OSFA, i'm sure you'll find it's a great album.

From what i've read: "Zappa's father was born in Partinico, Italy and arrived in the US as a child. It is from his father that Frank claims Arab and Greek blood. His mother was first generation American of Neapolitanean and Franco-Italian stock. Frank's parents often spoke Italian around the house and his maternal grandmother spoke no English." This is and excerpt from "Zappa, a visual documentary" by Miles.

Sharleena

[SOFA]

Hello,
my name`s Tim, I'm 21 and from England and just got into Zappa

Hello Tim,
Welcome to your new life...

I love HR, BWS, especially Willie The Pimp, Son of Mr Green Genes, Little House..
what albums should I get next if I like those?

There's an inherent problem with your question, Tim; even if I 'rated' the recordings you mentioned extremely high on my 'Favo-Zappa' list, I might be liking them for reasons entirely different from yours. So, my recommendations as to what you should buy next are really only applicable to me - you might not be happy with any I'd suggest.
(Yeah, that's stretching it, but I think the point is valid.)
So here's my suggestion - ignore all suggestions. Your next Zappa purchase should be: 1) something by Frank; 2) something available to you; 3) something you can afford. Follow that advice and you will soon be swimming in FZ...
Why be so cavalier in your purchases?
Because, as most any Zappa fan will tell you: 1) sometimes a recording that doesn't pop your cork immediately will grow on you; 2) it's pretty difficult to find a Zappa release that's *unlikeable in its entirety; 3) the more Zappa you have, the more likely you are to listen to tracks that suit your mood for any given occasion.
(*There are a few recordings that seem to make it to someone's "I don't like it" list - a review of this forum will no doubt produce a title or two. But a review will also show that any one person's "top ten" list will change with their mood - indeed, even if the person was bold enough to narrow it down to a top ten.)
Case in point: The Francesco release; it's not one of my favs, but that sucker gets played - usually right around this time of year. And ThingFish; again not one that I would put on a top ten, must have list, but worth owning only for "Brown Moses".
If you try to collect FZ, purchasing only those recordings recommended to you by others, you'll probably end up being disappointed in something - which isn't fair to you, or FZ.
My answer? Collect them all! You're going to want them all in the end anyway; why pigeon-hole them?
And give OSFA a chance; if it doesn't thrill you now, put it away for a couple of months, buy/listen to other stuff for a while, and then go back to it. That recording is one that has a permanent spot on my 'top ten' - regardless of my mood.
Good luck,
SOFA
PS. Just to be a nice guy - Threesome #2 is excellently priced and packaged; a good deal all around.

[timmo82]

Thanks for your recommendations sharleena, and advice SOFA, but I'm not made of money so buying everything isn't an option right now!

I like OSFA, I'm just saying it's not his best (from what little albums I've heard), HR & Money & YAWYI are better to my ears.

There must be some Zappa addicts who can answer my questions from my 1st post!

I downloaded a King Kong video from beefheart.com from 1968 done in England for the BBC, awesome stuff, is it like that on Uncle Meat?

Tim

[SOFA]

I'm not made of money so buying everything isn't an option right now!

Did I say you needed to get them all right now?
It took me 15 years - and his death - for me to get all the stuff...
My point was to not "plan" a purchase, but rather...
Oh, never mind.

I downloaded a King Kong video from beefheart.com from 1968 done in England for the BBC, awesome stuff, is it like that on Uncle Meat?

Uncle Meat is far more ornate & orchestrated (that BBC track is awesome, aint it?) - and highly recommended. Weasels Ripped My Flesh is also a must have from that era.
I'll mention Joe's Garage - but only for the Watermelon In Easter Hay track. Arguably Frank's finest guitar moment.
Good Luck, Tim!
SOFA

[timmo82]

I've listened to OSFA some more, ...and I gotta say it is awesome you were right!
When I first heard it I was used to the HR/BWS Zappa style, now I know not to expect the expected!
The only fault I could say now is that Inca Roads goes on a bit too long but that doesn't matter really.
I love the rawk ending to Can't Afford No Shoes, Sofa 1 is a great little composition, and Sofa 2 is hilarious, and that 'hi-yo-hi' at the end made me lol when I heard it again.
Florentine Fogen great tune again, tasty riffs interspersed.
Only thing about Andy I don't like is the 'is this something you can understand' bit (oh and that similar guacamole thing on IR, wtf is that about?! )
and I've already mentioned I love Pojama People & San Ber'dino.

I just got Roxy & Elsewhere, woah that's fucking awesome! :] Last 'song' goes on bit long though, funny still. That bit about 7 mins into '..Wash that thing' (I think) where Frank whips out the wah-wah is phenomenal!
Funky album.

Seeing as 90% of 1980's music is shit and I'm wary of it in general (except Echo & the Bunnymen, Smiths..) I heard some of Frank's stuff then wasn't too amazing, I'm a bit wary to get some of that (YAWYI rocks though), and that synclavier thing sounds well dodgy!!
I've heard good things about the '88 band, and the Best Band You Never Heard album? Stairway to Heaven cover looks interesting, and I love Led Zep so should be funny.

Til next time,
Tim.
PS why isn't forum very active? Zappa.com's is very compared to this.
--
Peace to Dr Winston O' Boogie where ever you are..

[SOFA]

PS why isn't forum very active? Zappa.com's is very compared to this.

Well Tim, we at KUR prefer Quality over Quantity...
There IS a drivel factor, just ask anyone - but zappa.com's drivel factor is a huge, throbbing, pulsating, engorged, purplish monster compared to KUR's...
And that's the way we like it!
SOFA

[handlebarjohnny]

PS why isn't forum very active? Zappa.com's is very compared to this.

Well Tim, we at KUR prefer Quality over Quantity...
There IS a drivel factor, just ask anyone - but zappa.com's drivel factor is a huge, throbbing, pulsating, engorged, purplish monster compared to KUR's...
And that's the way we like it!
SOFA

yes a lot of drivel, but don't we love it kids?  both forums are cool, i'm on both.  this place seems like a ghost town sometimes, but the z forum has too many redundant threads and should have more folders for pic association and dvd begging (not that i don't beg for dvd's  ).  welcome aboard buddy.  

[timmo82]

thanks for replying and all, but you lot (almost) never seem to answer my questions!
 

-80s zappa material? [best band ever?]
-ian underwood on WOIIFTM cover?
-my YAWYI version.. I found that out meself, I've got the Chrislu (?) remaster, so I'm ok.
-what in Satan's name is a synclavier and does it sound any good?

Seeing as I'm at in I've a couple more (hoho):

-inside OSFA is says it was made during the same time as 'our next record (coming soon)', which is this?
-listening to WOIIFTM and Concentration Moon, now I've no idea what the song is saying, maybe I haven't listened hard enough, but is it something to do with switching the lyrics to get: 'concentration camp, over the moon in the valley' ??

Uncle Meat is £14.99, and that's on Amazon.co.uk, anywhere I can get it cheaper y'know?

Ta,
Tim.
P.S.
I'm listening to John Paul Jones' Thunderthief album, reminds me of Zappa (solo styles, instrumental structures, middle eastern-y styles). Top album!

[SOFA]

thanks for replying and all, but you lot (almost) never seem to answer my questions!

Well... I'd like to point out that some of your questions are a bit rhetorical in that their "answers" are more a matter of taste than 'yes' or 'no'. Great discourse can come of that, but "answers" don't come easy...
Case in point:

80s zappa material? [best band ever?]

C'mon bro, that's not a question to be answered, but rather a request for an opinion...
IMO, no - none of the 5 bands that toured the 80's was the best band ever. My order of 80's preference?
1) Oct-Dec 1980 band; 2) Sep 1981-Jul 1982 band; 3) Feb-Jun 1988 band; 4) Jul-Dec 1984 band; and 5) Feb-Jul 1980 band.

-my YAWYI version..

If I recall, weren't a couple of links provided to you, that you might read of the differences? Maybe not... I thought so. Yeah, most folks tend to appreciate the Chrislu remix...

-ian underwood on WOIIFTM cover?

Yes, that is Ian above FZ's right shoulder and Don Preston's left shoulder. He's also done in plaster, sitting to the right side of the drums, with a baby doll in his lap.

-what in Satan's name is a synclavier and does it sound any good?

A synclavier is a synthsizer. The Prototype Synclavier was developed at Dartmouth College, New Hampshire, USA, as a self contained digital synthesiser based on a network of integrated circuits and micro-processors. The user was shielded from the software complexities by a comprehensive push-button keypad; later models had an added VDU, QWERTY keyboard and hard disk. A touch strip allowed continuous pitch control.
The Synclavier started its life as little more than an 8 bit FM/Additive synthesizer. New England Digital then added sampling: 16 bit, 100 khz sampling, 32 voices with stereo panning and 4 to 32 meg of RAM (the Fairlight CMI III was the only other game in town)! Another option was the WORM drive for $30,000.  You could save all your samples on a laser disk platter (yes, just like the big movie disks).  Now you had 2 gig of storage per disk!  This was a little more advanced than your Apple II being MIDI'd to your Yamaha DX7.  NED also offered a velocity sensitive, 76 note,  weighted keyboard.  It had polyphonic aftertouch, a ribbon controller, pitch and modulation wheels, L.E.D. screen and lots of blinking buttons...
These machines cost about $150,000.  By the time the lease fees and interest was paid it was more like $250,000.  You could also add 16 track direct to disk recording.  Complete studio for $400,000.
The audio/specification/power standard the Synclavier set back in 1985-1987 still mops the floor with a lot of today's sample systems.  And the machine has progressed since then.
Now... "does it sound any good?"
(I cannot believe I'm even attempting this!)
IMO - rhythmically impeccable, sonically perfect, emotionally heartless.

inside OSFA is says it was made during the same time as 'our next record (coming soon)', which is this?

That was a reference to the Roxy album.

listening to WOIIFTM and Concentration Moon, now I've no idea what the song is saying, maybe I haven't listened hard enough, but is it something to do with switching the lyrics to get: 'concentration camp, over the moon in the valley' ??

The song refers to an alleged "program" that the CIA had in which they'd test LSD on the general public (the hippies) and then ship them off to the deserted WW2 internment camps if things got nasty. This alleged program was also suggested as a solution to the 'undesirables' that were causing so much trouble protesting the Viet Nam War... ("Drag a few creeps away in a bus")

Uncle Meat is £14.99, and that's on Amazon.co.uk, anywhere I can get it cheaper y'know?

Nope... Half.com? Ebay? I don't really know.
Okay, let's see; yup, that's all of them.
May you never say we don't answer your questions again...
SOFA

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

thanks for replying and all, but you lot (almost) never seem to answer my questions!
 
Well... I'd like to point out that some of your questions are a bit rhetorical in that their "answers" are more a matter of taste than 'yes' or 'no'. Great discourse can come of that, but "answers" don't come easy...


I agree.  What's more, there is naturally room for discussions of opinions, but I'd suggest starting a new thread for each topic.  Barry has provided different categories for our perusing pleasure.  It makes for easier reading and reference.

80s zappa material? [best band ever?]
 
C'mon bro, that's not a question to be answered, but rather a request for an opinion...

I've heard some folks claim that the original Mothers is the "only really good stuff" from FZ's catalogue.  Personally, I can't really decide what my favorite lineup is, although I can say the 80's material is definitely appealing to my ears.  It sounds very polished and precise.  I really like the vocal work from the 80's era bands.

-what in Satan's Snoofer is a synclavier and does it sound any good?

Yeah, ol' SOFA covered that rather well.  Here are two links describing it in detail:

http://www.500sound.com/9600feat.htm

http://www.500sound.com/uniquesync.html

Does it sound any good?  Well, that depends on what is meant by "sounding good."  In terms of the high definition of samples, the answer is yes.  Considering the 100 kHz at 16 bit sampling frequency, I'd say it is unsurpassed.  Compare CD quality:  44.1 kHz at 16 bit.  Pro Tools systems can record 96 kHz at 24 bit, which is comparable.

As far as it being emotionally heartless, I think that is a matter of how the synclavier is used.  It all depends what you put into it.  The important factor is the relation of samples/notes between each other.  While one note emanating from a tenor sax played by someone who knows his stuff will probably move most people, a sample of the same note will be just that: a sample.  Repeating that sample will come across cold: "we've already heard that, give us something new."  The guy with the horn will never be able to exactly reproduce the original note he played before, so if he does repeat it, this will still sound fresh.  That's just the nature of the beast.

I think musical performance and compositions with sampling technology require a new savvy from the musician(s) involved.  Samples need each other in sequence or other "real notes from real instruments" in order to build a proper relation, just like a work of art needs a frame, otherwise, "what is that shit hanging on the wall?"  

G Spot Tornado from Jazz From Hell is, IMO, very energetic, eclectic and fun.  I find Reagan at Bitburg from Civilization Phaze III dark and sinister while at the same time awkward and almost silly: kind of like an evil psychotic duck.  Oh yes, that's how I like to think of Ronald Reagan!

I recall distinctly at the concert I saw Frankie performing with the synclavier.  There was a segment where the band was vamping along while FZ improvised with a sample of a voice saying "Fuck it" in various pitches.  I thought it was funny and it had plenty of heart, but this can be attributed to the situation and relation to the other notes.

'concentration camp, over the moon in the valley' ??

Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but when you switch that around, it makes even less sense, doesn't it?  The only thing I've heard being over a moon was a cow, but that was long ago.  However, I DO get your drift and yes, there is a reference there.  SOFA hit the nail on the head once again.  There is also reference to the internment camps in The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny from the same album.  Check the liner notes.  By the way, do read Kafka's In the Penal Colony if you can get a hold of it.

Uncle Meat is £14.99, and that's on Amazon.co.uk, anywhere I can get it cheaper y'know?

Well, there's always the Winona Ryder method....but I wouldn't recommend that.  It can be hazardous to your freedom.



 

 

[timmo82]

thanks for replying my good men/women!

I meant to say [best band never] heard in your life..as in that album and, yes, your opinion of it! sorry for the confusion!

Wasn't Roxy released in '74 and OSFA in '75, then it wouldn't be next album ??

I don't have any liner notes for WOIIFTM, only the Sgt Pepper pisstakes (cutouts, cover,lyrics)? I got it with Threesome 1.

keep chooglin',
Tim

'free your mind and your ass will follow'

[SOFA]

Wasn't Roxy released in '74 and OSFA in '75, then it wouldn't be next album ??

Busted! You are indeed correct, Timmo. Bongo Fury was the next "actual" release by FZ.
Was he speaking (writing) about that release in the liner notes? Your guess is as good as mine. FZ was well known for 'hinting' at future projects, that then  never came to fruition.
So I dunno if he meant BF in those notes or not...
Thanks for calling me out on my error. I often try to go by memory when hanging in these forums and it don't always work.
SOFA

[timmo82]

Bongo Fury, ah, must get that soon, seeing as I love Zappa & Beefheart now!

Well I ordered 'The Band You Never Heard In Your Life' & 'Overnite Sensation', so I'll soon find out what 'Band' is like!

I can't stop buying Zappa albums, it's like a
disease which is great to catch!  

Think I'll get Threesome2 to save money, then I'll have 2  copies of Hot Rats, maybe I can convert someone else!

Then maybe Lather if I'm feeling saucy.

Tim.
She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy-ing!

[Barry]

Then maybe Lather if I'm feeling saucy.

May I advise you get Läther first? It's one of the greatest releases from the catalogue, I think you'll love it... See also these reviews:
http://www.killuglyradio.com/discography/album/laether.php

A belated welcome to the forum by the way!