The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play

[NoPlasticRobots]

I was lucky enough to find The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play AND the Real Frank Zappa Book at the same bookstore in the same night AND after a performance of FZ's music by the Symphony Parnassus in San Francisco (it was a good night, I think I even got laid!). Well, it seems like alot of people out there in FZ Land never read it, then again, at 650 pages, I could understand why. But for those of you who did read it, what did you think of it? Personally, I know nothing about Adorno or Freud, but I do think most of the "analyzing" done in this book is pretty spot on.

One of my favorite song breakdowns deals with "Montana". Explaing that it's a song about masturbation:

"The title itself contains the word Onan (mONtANa), a Biblical figure, who was slain by the Lord for 'spilling his seed on the ground' and, like the Marquis DeSade and Sacher Masoch, gave his name to a sexual impropriety that, until that time, had no name-Onanism. (after Onan is removed from Montana we are left with the letters MTA which, when read aloud, reveal the phrase 'Empty, eh?' which could be a comment on these proceedings.
Mighty Little, a vehicle that can change it's size is distinctly Phallic. 'Montana' is a song about the lonley pleasures of Masturbation."

Pretty in depth stuff eh? Go read, and tell everyone here what you think.

[SOFA]

I was lucky enough to find The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play AND the Real Frank Zappa Book at the same bookstore in the same night AND after a performance of FZ's music by the Symphony Parnassus in San Francisco (it was a good night, I think I even got laid!).
I gotta admit, that sounds like a pretty 'unbeatable' evening...
But for those of you who did read it, what did you think of it? Personally, I know nothing about Adorno or Freud, but I do think most of the "analyzing" done in this book is pretty spot on.
I've read it - more than once and I refer to it often. And tho' not a particular passion, I have a rudimentary knowledge of Freud and Adorno (you should check them out, to fully understand my comments here). And I think that a significant majority of Ben Watson's "anal"-izing is utter bullshit (I prefer the term "Benshit". The difference between bullshit and Benshit? A bullshitter knows he is bullshitting, while Ben Watson believes his own bullshit.) The example you provide, I believe, proves my case.
'Montana' is a song about the lonley pleasures of Masturbation."
One of my favorite interviews with FZ was from the Dick Cavett Show. At one point, Frank and Dick discuss Zappa's oft' times "questionable" lyrics. Frank drew an analogy with "Lizard King Poetry" (the writings of the late Jim Morrison) and finding the "significance" of Rock lyrics. Paraphrasing FZ: "You can take a song that means essentially 'come on let's dance' and argue for hours about the metaphysical quality of horse latitudes. I mean, 'come on baby light my fire' is a lot more simple than the experts would like to argue."
I thank heavens that Watson wrote the book, as it contains some excellent research. But, most of Watson's opinions on the "meaning" of FZ's lyrics are POOT (admittedly well crafted poot, but still poot), and tell us more about Ben Watson than Frank Zappa.
SOFA

[NoPlasticRobots]

Ok, I do have to admit, alot of what Watson says is his own bullshit, and you're correct in saying that it is well crafted. But like you said, it's a great book to refer to for almost any obscure FZ reference.
That Dick Cavett interview is a pretty good, although I've read another interview where Frank said something like "I didn't like the Dick Cavett interview....he didn't know what he was talking about." But I think one of the best gems out there is FZ on Crossfire in 1985. I only wish I could see it AND hear it...

[Barry]

I love PoodlePlay. I simply adore PoodlePlay... And the more intellectually depraved it gets, the better it gets...

But seriously: although a highly entertaining read, I sincerely think that the book tells more about Ben Watson himself, than it does about FZ. He's an Oxford academic looking at the musical output of a US westcoast bred, unique set of brains... I don't think he gets any closer to the crux of the biscuit in most cases than any of us... Some of his thoughts are quite intricate, others downright ridiculous. So, in all: a thought-provoking must read, but with a lump of salt to go with it.

[NoPlasticRobots]

Ben Watson is an Oxford graduate? I've tried looking up info on him before, but always came up empty handed. With that in mind, I know longer picture him as a Zappa fan stuffed away in his den for hours looking for CC clues, but instead see him now looking for every detailed relationship between Adorno, Freud and Zappa...obviously the three people that have had some sort of impact on him...so let's bring 'em all together in this nifty little book here...

[Phat_Elvis]

I guess we are all pretty much in agreement on this one. NDIPP is an impressive work in several ways. 1) The amount of work he put into it is as impressive as it is scary ( I thought [i][/i]I[u][/u] was obsessed)  2) I also find it impressive that if you really put your mind to it you can make connections between any two works of art or philosophers. 3) The amount of pure BALLS it took Ben to actually publish some of these connections is also pretty impressive.

BP

[Top Cat]

Having read most of it...

I have to concur that Ben Watson really has over-analysed things a bit, and whilst his knowledge seems pretty good, he's succeeded in making a fascinating and fruitful topic (Uncle Frank) into a really tough read.

TC '..'

[SOFA]

Another bio that I found much easier to ingest and digest is "Electric Don Quixote" by Neil Slaven. This book is what you'd have if you squeezed the bullshit out of Poodle Play...
I highly recommend it. Greg Russo's "Cosmik Debris" (the revised one) is another very informative read.
SOFA

[kentomcintosh]

Watson's book reminds me of a comment I received fom my English professor on an essay I wrote, in which I analyzed a piece of Thoreau's Walden:  "Very ingenious.  Perhaps TOO ingenious."

On the other hand, I remember reading about a painter (I don't remember who), who, upon reading a review of his piece, said, "Hmm, so THAT'S what I meant."

There's much in Watson's book of use and interest, but I must agree that he might be an over-educated asshole.

[guacamole]

Ben Watson is an Oxford graduate? I've tried looking up info on him before, but always came up empty handed.

Try having a look at http://www.militantesthetix.co.uk/