a matter of gender

[sharleena]

WE have different brains and we process information differently. Now don't go off on me now I not suggesting that women are not capable of abstract thought or anything like that . And I really don't know what this means. But it must mean something and maybe we can talk about it and learn something here.  

 Wow what a catch 22, if we had more women here we could hear some more female perspective!!!!!

I agree, completely. There’s yet another point of view that has nothing to do with the “offending factor”; see this: when I play Zappa’s music in the house, and my mom or my sis are visiting, they just can’t stand at it. None of us has English as mother tongue, so it’s not a problem that they are offended for something particular in the lyrics.. It’s the musical score what strikes first; and they just can’t stand it. It’s just too complicated for them. I don’t want this to be a misogynist comment, because it’s not. Both my mom and sis likes music in general, and they aren’t brainless, you know. I think we women have not been trained to accept and enjoy this kinda music, which is not predictable beforehand. Maybe it’s disturbing for our natures??
On the other hand, most of the stuff they like, specially my sis, I find plain bored. Could it be  a temperament thing? Don’t forget our brains are stuffed into a few molds…It’s difficult to get out from there…Oh, well…some of the males brains are too…But it’s my impression they are pretty much encouraged to break those molds than we women…

Sorry I haven’t  write before; my online time is severely limited by now. But not that I haven’t followed this very interesting thread from the beginning! Thanks all for your opinions!

[SOFA]

If asked, my wife will say she doesn't care for FZ... Yet there have been times - unprompted by any musical stimulus from me - that I've caught her humming "Peaches", or "For Calvin..." So, there are certain Zappa melodies that must appeal to her. She's classically trained, and understands the complexity of FZ's music; the lyrics, for the most part, turn her off.
She tolerates my obsession, understands my affection, but doesn't desire a spot on the bandwagon.
On the other hand, she's an avid Football (American) fan - which is another male dominated 'passion'...
I guess what I'm trying to say is, that appreciation for FZ (or any music, or sport, or cultural activity) seems to me more a matter of nurture over nature... I won't argue that we are different and the gender difference causes differing mental processes, but I don't buy that woman in general don't care for FZ because they're woman...
SOFA

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

Howdy, folks.  Hope everyone had a nice time over the holidays.  I also wanted to thank each and every one of you members for making me feel welcome in your group here.  I don't want to get sentimental, so, 'nuff said.

It's the musical score what strikes first; and they just can't stand it. It's just too complicated for them.

Yeah, Sharl, but I think that is an element that many people, regardless of gender, have difficulties with.  Most people want that predictability because they can't be bothered to actually sit and LISTEN; you know - NOT dance or wash dishes or have the TV running simultaneously.  Just listen.  Concentration is a rare and valuable commodity these days.

WE have different brains and we process information differently.

Good one, Doc.  I understand there is scientific proof to support this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that appreciation for FZ (or any music, or sport, or cultural activity) seems to me more a matter of nurture over nature... but I don't buy that woman in general don't care for FZ because they're woman...


I agree, Sofa.  Might I add that you sum it up very well, but I still think my Snot Theory is valid for the English speakers!
 

[guacamole]

hi folks and a happy new year to you all.
I'm surprised at the level of response to this thread and have enjoyed catching up on all the posts since I've been away on leave.
LCS - you write that "women are not properly represented in music as a whole" - I quite agree, but perhaps the problem is just that woman are not properly represented full stop / period.
As the godfather of soul sang "......but it wouldn't mean nothing without a woman or a girl"
interesting view about men having more of an interest in bodily secretions etc but if it were true then would you expect women to become nurses, doctors, pathologists etc?
On the subject of drugs and alcohol being one of the main causes for psychiatric problems - I've also found that organised religion has a lot to answer for in this regard too.
( Hi Pappy, bizarrely enough I am also a psychiatric nurse ).
Personally I'm quite happy with my taste in music being viewed by others as "odd" or whatever they want to call it. I'm happy for them to listen to whatever they like and I wouldn't want to get into any debate about the artistic merits or otherwise about what they or I choose to listen to.

Barry - get well soon and thanks again for the wonderful site

[ENUPA]

About 1600 titles ,about 200 about sex issues... only about 1 out of 8 is sex related....  if u listen closely it's more about men doing dumb things than women..(that could possibly offend u)...keeping this in mind..

so i would say....70-30 male female...(a lot of people don't listen too well)

[pappap999]

well guacamole you are right about religious ideations as another cause of psychiatric problems oddly enough it usually goes alcohol weed harder drugs then jesus or whatever your god happens to be.  the main thing is these people are grasping at anything to keep them afloat daily.  now, hereis a good point that the so called experts almost used to help many psych people.  music, yes music as you probably know those who hear voices [in a test ] were given stereo headsets with music it drowned out the voices they heard and some success was being made. but, since most projects are government sponsered the scientists do what uncle sam wants regardless of outcome.  one more thing and I may be out of topic again but, do any of you remember zappa singing of confinement loaf?  well, guess what is used inprisons of pa.  mashed up soybeans made into a loaf to sort of keep the inmates quiet.  Isn't it really fantastic that zappa was always ahead of his time regardless of topic. sort of a modern day nostradamus.  and I really did not mean to say that woman were less important than zappa it is just that I remember some of my buddies and the shit that their girlfriends were saying about him.  I did not care I went to all shows even two three nights in a row two shows a night and went for me not for anyone else.  glad to hear from anyone on kur sometimes it gets quiet out here.  keep those thorazines flowing guacamole.  love you all..    

[guacamole]

pappy - yes I'd heard about that research; most of our in-patients are constantly attached to their personal stereos.
there was also a paper I saw a few years back which suggested that tobacco and caffeine (favourites of FZ's)
were used as "self-medication". Unfortunately, as you point out, they seem to prefer the harder stuff these days.
On the subject of confinement loaf, it seems to have been around forever (dare I suggest "Discipline and Punish" and
"Madness and Civilisation" by Michel Foucault).
Anyhoo, back to the matter in hand so to speak, none of my partners over the years have liked Zappas music - perhaps this says more about me than it does about them.  They would probably all agree that my brain was different to theirs too! - Abbey Normal (apologies to Mel Brooks)

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

Ah, the good ol' Confinement Loaf!  Heya, Pappy.  I think there just might be a bit more than soybeans in that recipie, huh?

so i would say....70-30 male female...(a lot of people don't listen too well)

Well, lookee here... someone did some research.  Thanks for the input.  Yeah, Enupa, listening seems to be a dying art form.  Sigh...

interesting view about men having more of an interest in bodily secretions etc but if it were true then would you expect women to become nurses, doctors, pathologists etc?


Guacamole, I guess I didn't make my statement clear enough.  I was referring to the subject of human bodily secretions as a source of humorous entertainment or philosophical discourse, not the object of study in a scientific atmosphere.  Granted, there are female doctors aplenty, but snot takes a completely different role in that situation.  Physicians use bodily secretions to gather information about a patient.  This, for them, is a serious matter.  I don't think many pathologists (regardless of gender) worry too much about the profound insights or implications a window covered with boogers might have to offer (except when it comes to hygiene).

[guacamole]

My apologies LCS - I've not been paying attention to detail (yet again!).

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

No apologies necessary, buddy!  These sort of things help one get into the nooks and crannies of a discussion, and keep it interesting.

[pappap999]

strange also that during the last election al, and tipper gore almost won the white house.  remember him on the commitee with his wife testifying about wanting warning labels on music and the zappa testimony when the gores tried to make him out to possibly be harmful to not only us but his family.  now, think back a week ago or so when gore was on sat. night live doing gay and racial putdowns live on tv not edited into a tape or cd of music. these two wanted your music deleted, rated and in many cases removed from our purchasing little hands.  I cringe when I think of what would be coming out oif the white house re: censorship if the GORES would have won. because surely they did not make a 360 turnaround on all their attitudes that they held re: music movies and tv back in the 90's. anyway the point is it was tipper who told our frankie I would love to come to your house to see the toys your kids play with.  and in  his usual comic wisdom, he invited her over.  so, as a matter of gender both male and female came pretty damn close to editing our choices of all arts we appreciate.  keep in touch.  love

[SOFA]

it was tipper who told our frankie I would love to come to your house to see the toys your kids play with.  and in  his usual comic wisdom, he invited her over.
I'm afraid you have that wrong...
It was Senator Hawkins, Republican from Florida, who made that exchange with FZ.
Yours in historical correctness,
SOFA

[pappap999]

well sofa, I bow to you in  my ineptness at historical facts you win!!I am getting older and less competent in the ole grey matter.  sometimes I am right and it shocks even me but the point did get through I hope.  as a psychiatric nurse I'm sure that I have something in my closet shock treatment or some sort of dna from a person much wiser than I.  thanks for fixing my errors please send me a bill.   and as the master said "DUMB ALL OVER, A LITTLE UGLY ON THE SIDE,"  I'll check out my early retirement data from ss me thinks it is time to fall from grace to those who know better!  love to all.  the rest of you keep plugging along zappa would get a real laugh at the items we chose to discuss, well, it's over to good housekeeping chat line where at least I know how to boil an egg..   aside to guacomole, take care of our psych patients I'm sure if war breaks out it will be us that gets the majority of shell shocked soldiers to care for.  you guys have given me some good laughs this is to me and I may be wrong but, this is the best fun on line site that I ever had the pleasure to blab on>  I'm so glad that some info gets through to the newer younger fans of the great and powerful OZ.  KUR keep pluggin along you guys have the finest memorial site on all media.  

[guacamole]

OK guys, last night I was playing Zappa and my partner was in the room, she actually asked to hear a couple of songs so I thought perhaps we could compile a list of songs
which non-zappaholics find acceptable/listenable/enjoyable?

The Zappa tunes which she wanted to hear were:-

1. Jelly Roll Gum Drop
2. Penguin In Bondage

further contributions please ladies and gentlemen.

[Barry]

Female non-zappaholics, or non-zappaholics altogether?
If its the latter you mean, I think we'd better make it a new thread.