Magdalena

[sharleena]

I was curious about this song (in Just Another Band from LA) since i got to read the lyrics, some months ago. Today i listened to it for the first time; i have to say those lyrics kinda impressed me, but i don't like the song too much -i'm not quite a Flo and Eddy fan.

I'm still wondering about the intention in this song...If it has a funny side, i don't see it.
I mean, this character, Magdalena's dad, is rather disturbing. The fact that he is Canadian is stated all over the song; although the girl is depicted as "daughter of the smog-filled winds of Los Angeles". I am aware of the (US) Americans/Canadians rivalry, could this have a relation with that? I mean, why are they stating that the guy is Canadian? Some kind of reprobatory intention hidden there? How did Zappa feel about this?

And also, why him -and Kaylan- had chosen the name Magdalena for the girl? That is not a very usual name in the US, no? Magdalena was that said prostitute that Jesus saved from being stoned because of her sins...This line strikes me also:
I want you to walk back in your five inch spike heels that you got at Frederick's,
same time you and your mommy got that crotchless underwear last year for Christmas
Are she and her mom actually prostitutes? Is this song aimed to any particular person? Anybody?

[guacamole]

The way I see it (Barry), this song is more a comment upon the sort of distorted thinking which perpetrators of sexual abuse employ to justify their behaviour and to heap guilt onto the victim. I think that Magdalena in this song is quite a strong character and her father is portrayed as rather pathetic. It also seems that the lyrics lend support to the actions taken by Magdalena; "Right on! Magdalena".
The serious content of the lyrics is juxtaposed against that sort of "comedy music" which I'm sure someone else (Bertanya? LCS?) has commented on in another thread about their understanding of negative dialectics.

[guacamole]

I want you to walk back in your five inch spike heels that you got at Frederick's,
same time you and your mommy got that crotchless underwear last year for Christmas
Are she and her mom actually prostitutes?

I'd never thought of it that way before, just always assumed that the pervy husband/father had given the underwear as christmas presents

[sharleena]

The way I see it (Barry), this song is more a comment upon the sort of distorted thinking which perpetrators of sexual abuse employ to justify their behaviour and to heap guilt onto the victim.
The serious content of the lyrics is juxtaposed against that sort of "comedy music" which I'm sure someone else (Bertanya? LCS?) has commented on in another thread about their understanding of negative dialectics.

You mean, attributing the spike heels and the crotchless underwear to Magdalena in order to justify his own behaviour? (the "you dress like a hooker, you are provoking me" kind of argument?) Yeah...
I agree on the pathetic. Yet the song fails for me on the "comedy music" side, like many others don't. I just find it bitter; not funny.

[sharleena]

I want you to walk back in your five inch spike heels that you got at Frederick's,
same time you and your mommy got that crotchless underwear last year for Christmas
Are she and her mom actually prostitutes?

I'd never thought of it that way before, just always assumed that the pervy husband/father had given the underwear as christmas presents

Why, maybe...
Those lines makes the thing more complicated. Is Magdalena just a victim of her father's abuse or is she actually acting provocatively? Or is just his dad trying to justify his own behaviour? Why Zappa chose the name of a said prostitute for this character??

PS: I just hope The Nazis had nothing to do with these lyrics  

[guacamole]

"A teenage daughter with a see-thru blouse who loved to grunt and ball"

"is she a victim of her fathers abuse or is she acting provocatively?"

To me, the two are not mutually exclusive; the latter as a direct result of the former.

As to the biblical connection there is some dubiety as to the actual identification of Mary Magdalen in the Bible;
see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09761a.htm

[sharleena]

"A teenage daughter with a see-thru blouse who loved to grunt and ball"
"is she a victim of her fathers abuse or is she acting provocatively?"

To me, the two are not mutually exclusive; the latter as a direct result of the former.

True; but i'm not saying anyway that dressing as a hooker or acting provocatively should allow the father to any abuse, eh? That's not what i'm saying...The more i read the lyrics, the more it seems to me that those elements are parts of the overall image Magdalena's dad creates in order to justify his wishes/feelings. You can see a smell of guilty on his sayings too...

As to the biblical connection there is some dubiety as to the actual identification of Mary Magdalen in the Bible;
see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09761a.htm

Yes, i've seen this before. The Bible doesn't put her as a prostitute in the sense we have nowadays, but as a "sinner"... Yet i wonder why they chose that namefor the character...

[Lonesome Cowboy Squirt]

Hi, guys.

I don't have JABFLA and unfortunately, have never heard the song.  I have, however, read the lyrics.

I'd most certainly say that the father is trying to justify his own behavior.  Consider the line:

"Do you have any idea what that can do to a man?"

Now, maybe I'm weird, but I just don't see how hard work making maple syrup can drive one to rape one's own daughter.  The man's nothing more that a pig-headed, overbearing prick in my eyes.

I'm sure FZ named the girl Magdalena after the biblical prostitute, er, adultress (note the neon Jesus picture reference).  It appears to me that FZ places no blame on the girl, just as Jesus forgave the original Magdalena.

Yow!  How's that for a parallel?  FZ as JC!  I love it.

What I don't get is how the Canadians end up in Los Angeles.

[sharleena]

Hi, guys.

Hey there, LCS!

I'd most certainly say that the father is trying to justify his own behavior.  Consider the line:
"Do you have any idea what that can do to a man?"
Now, maybe I'm weird, but I just don't see how hard work making maple syrup can drive one to rape one's own daughter.  The man's nothing more that a pig-headed, overbearing prick in my eyes.

I agree. And a very pathetic one...

I'm sure FZ named the girl Magdalena after the biblical prostitute, er, adultress (note the neon Jesus picture reference).  It appears to me that FZ places no blame on the girl, just as Jesus forgave the original Magdalena.
Yow!  How's that for a parallel?  FZ as JC!  I love it.
What I don't get is how the Canadians end up in Los Angeles.

Yeah, i think they had used the name with a purpose in mind. Can't be a coincidence.
 Now, the Canadians reference...i dunno...

[Barry]

Now, the Canadians reference...i dunno...

The Canadians fought in WWII... so did the Russians (note the Magdalena)... so it all boils down to NAZIS I tell ya!

(ahem, haven't got a clue either )

[Chris]

(WARNING: SLIGHT PLUG BELOW)

A copy'n'paste from Zappology, which, incidentally, can be read here:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/7206

...renders my own take on that song, for what it's worth.

First, some foreshadowing from earlier on this fantastic album:

Hoch is wearing a Dudley Do-Right watch, a piece of merchandise depicting the Canadian Police cartoon character from the Bullwinkle Show (forecasting the Montreal setting of "Magdalena" on side two).

(Studebacher covering his legs with maple syrup also predicts "Magdalena.")

Here's the Meat of the song itself, and I apologize for the lengthiness of the following prose:

The phrase "sixteen tailors" is sung to the tune of the Crests' hit "Sixteen Candles." A great speedy intro brings us right into "Magdalena," which concerns a Canadian girl and her perverted father (rumored to be based on a guy in an actual news item, although this will be refuted by Howard in interviews). The song, which Howard helped to write (at least lyrically), maintains a tacky gallop to match the deplorable image of a man trying to touch his daughter (and to evoke French-Canadian folk music), but it slows into a catchy, keyboard-driven chorus laden with pretty harmonies: The music becomes more pleasant to the ear as the girl runs from her dad. He turns out to be a maple syrup maker. The chorus includes a typical male excuse for intolerable sexual advances: "Do you have any idea what [working hard] can do to a man?"

     In a fantastic solo spot, Aynsley rolls out a Salsa beat with which Jim's bass, Ian's keys and either Mark or Howard's maracas eventually join in. The bridge is sung in a silly falsetto as the father tries to convince his daughter to forgive him. Zappologist Matt Bloomfield believes that the "doodle doodle" vocals make fun of the commercials for Adee Plumbing. At the end of the question-and-answer section in "Call Any Vegetable," it does sound like Mark answers the stomach-pumping question by quoting their commercial: "Adee do!"

     The slow music that follows is almost sad, with Howard's descending repetition of "Magdalena" recalling the beauty of the slow "Call Any Vegetable" chorus. The father tries to be poetic: "Daughter of the smog-filled winds of Los Angeles!" Since the story actually takes place in Montreal, this must be another instance in which the Mothers tailor their lyrics according to concert site (the references in "Billy the Mountain" are different for New York performances).

     The old man further hurts his case by admitting to aberrant sexual fantasies in which the digestive medicine Kaopectate plays a part, going along with the possible plumbing-company jingle. He wants to stroll with Magdalena down Hollywood Boulevard by the star-shaped sidewalk impressions representing Jon Provost (the little boy in the Lassie TV show) and Leo G. Carroll (star of the 1955 horror film Tarantula). The Cinegrill's mentioned, a Hollywood Boulevard nightclub. Shell Pest Strips are also spoken of, anti-bug traps manufactured by the Shell oil company (products later revoked due to toxic effects on non-bugs).

     The father gets down on his knees like the soul singer James Brown: "I want you to walk back to me, baby." Cheap products decorate their environment, recalling the TV dinners in "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" (which involved another pedophile): "I want you to turn around by the Sparklett's [bottled water] machine...and the little chartreuse hallway with the little neon Jesus picture on the wall...I want you to walk back!" The Tonight Show's cited again as the father finds another excuse for his behavior, flaunting his unimpressive TV education about sexual impulses. The most climactic build on the album, at the end of which we can only hope the man will excite himself into a fatal heart attack (although we'll never find out), features the punctuated repetition of the word "walk" and gains speed very gradually as Zappa makes us approach a topic of disgust, perceiving blunt revelation to be the only weapon against molesters but leaving any actual opinions of the man to the listener.

     The musicians tightly follow each other into a siren-embellished whirlwind of frustration, and then "Dog Breath" starts immediately, presenting the younger frustrated Uncle Meat character.

[guacamole]

Ah, THE NAZIS ! - time to invoke Godwin's Law again .

Now, I'm sure I read somewhere that this was based upon a true story which made the news around the time. If anyone can verify this it might give a clue as to the L.A. / Canada bit.
I dunno, is there a place called Montreal in California?.

[bertanya]

Personally, I don't like godwin's law. Why let the nazis faze you at any time.

[SOFA]

I'm sure I read somewhere that this was based upon a true story which made the news around the time.
This, of course, is a scurge to this page of the forum because it puts the intellectualizing of FZ lyrics into their proper perspective, but I go for what Nigey Lennon said (she was, after all, there):
"The song "Magdalena" was written before I joined the tour, but I don't think it was based on anything in particular, like an article or a story. However, it did create a spin-off, "Winnipeg Rangers", the chorus of which went: "Rangers, ho! Rangers, ho! Rangers ho-ho-ho". This song, being rather fragmentary, was never performed in concert or recorded, mostly being sung in airports during the tour. There was always lots of joking going on during the tour about the various lyrics, and from that often came modifications of the songs in performance. For instance, in "Bwana Dik", there was originally a reference to Hodgkins' disease -- instead of "I didn't know you were so obviously -- pregnant" it was "I didn't know you so obviously had -- Hodgkins' disease", and the chorus went "Hodgkins' disease, Hodgkins' disease". However, even Frank felt this was too 'sick', and it was dropped after a few performances.  
  Once upon a time Howard Kaylan himself was kind enough to clarify  
  I WROTE THOSE WORDS... THERE WASN'T A REAL STORY... SEE, THESE ARE JUST "SONGS"."
Let's not forget that the message is the music - not necessarily just the lyrics.
SOFA

[Noolie]

Guac:
Once while visiting Montreal, I met a stripper....I mean dancer, named California.  Coincidentally she had on a see-thru blouse.  Sorry I saw no sign of a Nazi tatoo.  You can probably guess what I put on my pancakes for breakfast the next morning.    mmmm syrup