Reggae and ska style

[frenchmen]

Arf everybody,

I was listening to FZ yesterday as suddenlly sometihng struck me. I never eard how much FZ uses a Reggae and ska style in his songs.  I found it amasing. It looks like he took some parts of the jamaican music. You probably reallissed that, even if it isn't directly a reggae or a ska song, you often have the rythm guitar that plays a reggae kind of riff.
Lets talk, as an exemple, about Stairway to Heaven in TBBYNHIYL. I find it a little bit reggae. I find it great to mix a classical rock song with reggae!!! And what about the Bolero, a classical classic music played in reggae....
And about "Make a Jazz Noise Here", reggae is allmost everywhere....
I just wanted to say that I never thought about Zappa as a "reggae" musicien.
Please, tell me what you think about this. Can we see FZ as the illigimet son of Bob Marley?
I just bought "Joe's Garage" (very big piece!!!!Great!!!!Exellent album!!!!WHAT A DAY!!!!! WHat A DAY, Folks !!!!), and there you find somme reggae too....In 1979, It's amasing that some one knows and plays reggae music (at least in France, where reggae wasn't known really until the late 80's). I don't know how it is in the US. But if it's like in France, could we say that FZ was one of the first ones to popularise reggae music?
Well, anyway, have a nice day

seeya.

[sharleena]

Arf everybody,

I was listening to FZ yesterday as suddenlly sometihng struck me. I never eard how much FZ uses a Reggae and ska style in his songs.  
And about "Make a Jazz Noise Here", reggae is allmost everywhere....
I just wanted to say that I never thought about Zappa as a "reggae" musicien.
Please, tell me what you think about this. Can we see FZ as the illigimet son of Bob Marley?
I just bought "Joe's Garage", and there you find somme reggae too....In 1979, It's amasing that some one knows and plays reggae music (at least in France, where reggae wasn't known really until the late 80's). I don't know how it is in the US. But if it's like in France, could we say that FZ was one of the first ones to popularise reggae music?
Well, anyway, have a nice day

seeya.

I agree, there are lots of songs with reggae content (if you have Joe's Garage: i think Lucille is a pretty good example, no?) although i dunno if i'd say Zappa was the illegitimate Bob Marley's son! :-) From what i remember, at least in the place where i live, we knew reggae (Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, etc) way before Zappa used it in any composition...But yes, it's amazing the amount of reaggish songs among Frank's. I can't recall tho' about the ska songs, which ones would you say would be ska songs? Can you remember any?

When i bought Broadway The Hard Way, many years ago, the guy who sold it to me pointed at Promiscuous and told me "Frank is the first guy who did a rap outside the circle of rap musicians.." I dunno if that is true really...But that disc is worthy to have indeed!

[SOFA]

Please, tell me what you think about this. Can we see FZ as the illigimet son of Bob Marley?
No; that would be infinitely stupid - even spelled correctly
But if it's like in France, could we say that FZ was one of the first ones to popularise reggae music?
No. Though that statement is not infinitely stupid, like the first one, reggae gained popularity world-wide (yes, even in France) well before FZ ever employed it.
Methinks this poster is relatively young.
"Frank is the first guy who did a rap outside the circle of rap musicians.."
The first example of Rap, outside of Rap circles, was "Rapture" by Blondie. Late 70's, if I recall.
SOFA

[NoPlasticRobots]

I also have to agree. I was listening to MAJNH and also realised there was a significant amount of reggae on that album, and other albums released around that same time.

[Barry]

I also have to agree. I was listening to MAJNH and also realised there was a significant amount of reggae on that album, and other albums released around that same time.

Sure, but MAJNH is an album highlighting the '88 band... doesn't support the argument that FZ was picking up on reggae way before the mainstream did (that would be: late 70ies), does it? Zappa's used the reggae-stance quite often, that's true. One other example that springs to mind is "Fine Girl" (Tinseltown Rebellion, 1981). I'm wondering where reggae crops up in Joe's Garage, hmmm... will have to listen to that one again, been a while...

[sharleena]

I'm wondering where reggae crops up in Joe's Garage, hmmm... will have to listen to that one again, been a while...

Try Lucille, Barry...That one sounds like a reggae to me. Listen to the guitar there....Isn't it?

[Top Cat]

Hi folks.

Yeah, Uncle Frank was a big one for the old Reggae, although I suspect a lot of his use of reggae was determined by the fact that it's free-er and more open than more conventional rhythmical constructs, which would have suited Bozzio and Vinnie - I won't count Chad Wackerman, as his reggae was far too rigid and awkward sounding.

As Vinnie once stated at a (cough) drum clinic (and I will paraphrase big time for you) most western music is like rolling a ball - it's regular, defined and even-handed.  Reggae (and also latino rhythms such as Samba) are like rolling an egg - it's an ebb-and-flow sort of thing, freer in its phrasing and easier on its tempo.  In other words, the object of the game is to sound like you're both stoned but completely in control at the same time.  A bit like Steve Gadd (triple rate, no less).  Without the coke.

Anyway, getting back to my warbling.  I think Frank liked it as a foundation for his live work (which most of the reggae examples fall into) as it's an easier way to perform, how you say in the trade, audience participation, as it's easier to vamp in the reggae-style that's so popular today.  It also fits in with Frank's taste in free-er, more complex rhythmical constructs, such as the polymetric phrasing (you know, polymeters, such as 5/1, and polyrhythms, such as 13/7 ostinatos (SUAPYG I think uses this in places).

Anyway, I digress.  Quite why he chose cod-reggae so often is a bit of a mystery, given the complexities of some of the more challenging work, but then 'accessibility' might come into it - after all, if you play 5/4 over Bolero, someone's going to get a bit confused with its statistical density and head off to the bar...

TC '..'

[frenchmen]

I can't recall tho' about the ska songs, which ones would you say would be
                          ska songs? Can you remember any?

Well I think about lumpy gravy and the black page ( after 2 or 3 minutes) in MAJNH as ska songs. Have to check 'n tell you later for more songs ( if I can find) ok?

And thank you Top Cat, I never thougth about the fact that most of the reggae stuff was live performens. I think your vision is probably right.

 And about the "illigimet son" stuff... I guess you're right SOFA....it's a infinitely stupid question...but young folks are known to be infinitely dumb (even in spelling).
Anyway, I didn't know the story of the exportation of jamaican music and when it happend. Now I know. Thank you all for you help to understand a little bit better FZ music.

....

[SOFA]

I can't recall tho' about the ska songs, which ones would you say would be ska songs? Can you remember any?
But you started the thread...
The first ska that pops into my mind is "Kreega Bandola" (or Young and Monde, or Let's Move to Cleveland, depending on the tour).
Remember, ska is simply reggea in cut time...
I can't recall any studio ska at all.
SOFA

[kentomcintosh]

When I heard reggae music, then relistened to Sharleena from the Chunga's Revenge album, I kept thinking that it could be played as a reggae tune.  Then later, it apparently DID appear (at least to me) in a reggae version:  a live version, I don't recall from which album, maybe one of the YCDTOSA?

[sharleena]

When I heard reggae music, then relistened to Sharleena from the Chunga's Revenge album, I kept thinking that it could be played as a reggae tune.  Then later, it apparently DID appear (at least to me) in a reggae version:  a live version, I don't recall from which album, maybe one of the YCDTOSA?

Yes, it's the version in YCDTOSA#3, it's reaggish and one of my preferred ones! Remember, the one with Dweezel? Anyway, Sharleena is  such a beautiful song, it could be played as a polka and still sound great...

[kentomcintosh]

I was listening to "Stick Together" from TMFU album:  although the beat -- the basic rhythm -- doesn't strike me as reggae, the guitar sure has a distinctive reggae quality to it.

[kING KONG]

 yo    i use to live in the jungle...

[bertanya]

As regards the early use of rap, to quote from the 'Famous last words' interview...

'On "Freak Out!" (1966) there was already a rapsong: "Return of the son of monster magnet". ',

I doubt this was the first, the rap style is as probably as old as music.

[SOFA]

'On "Freak Out!" (1966) there was already a rapsong: "Return of the son of monster magnet". '
I guess it depends on your definition of rap. If you consider "sprechzang" rap, then I'd agree. But, to say that ...Monster Magnet is an early example of Rap (as the popular medium has been portrayed) is pretty silly.
I doubt this was the first, the rap style is as probably as old as music.
Sprechzang maybe... Rap?
I guess you have to take into account all those hieroglyphics with the pharohs wearing their crowns backwards, and their togas down on their hips...
SOFA