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136
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Another newbie
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on: December 10, 2003, 08:01:54 PM
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thanks for replying and all, but you lot (almost) never seem to answer my questions! Well... I'd like to point out that some of your questions are a bit rhetorical in that their "answers" are more a matter of taste than 'yes' or 'no'. Great discourse can come of that, but "answers" don't come easy...
Case in point: 80s zappa material? [best band ever?] C'mon bro, that's not a question to be answered, but rather a request for an opinion...
IMO, no - none of the 5 bands that toured the 80's was the best band ever. My order of 80's preference?
1) Oct-Dec 1980 band; 2) Sep 1981-Jul 1982 band; 3) Feb-Jun 1988 band; 4) Jul-Dec 1984 band; and 5) Feb-Jul 1980 band.
-my YAWYI version.. If I recall, weren't a couple of links provided to you, that you might read of the differences? Maybe not... I thought so. Yeah, most folks tend to appreciate the Chrislu remix...
-ian underwood on WOIIFTM cover? Yes, that is Ian above FZ's right shoulder and Don Preston's left shoulder. He's also done in plaster, sitting to the right side of the drums, with a baby doll in his lap.
-what in Satan's name is a synclavier and does it sound any good? A synclavier is a synthsizer. The Prototype Synclavier was developed at Dartmouth College, New Hampshire, USA, as a self contained digital synthesiser based on a network of integrated circuits and micro-processors. The user was shielded from the software complexities by a comprehensive push-button keypad; later models had an added VDU, QWERTY keyboard and hard disk. A touch strip allowed continuous pitch control.
The Synclavier started its life as little more than an 8 bit FM/Additive synthesizer. New England Digital then added sampling: 16 bit, 100 khz sampling, 32 voices with stereo panning and 4 to 32 meg of RAM (the Fairlight CMI III was the only other game in town)! Another option was the WORM drive for $30,000. You could save all your samples on a laser disk platter (yes, just like the big movie disks). Now you had 2 gig of storage per disk! This was a little more advanced than your Apple II being MIDI'd to your Yamaha DX7. NED also offered a velocity sensitive, 76 note, weighted keyboard. It had polyphonic aftertouch, a ribbon controller, pitch and modulation wheels, L.E.D. screen and lots of blinking buttons...
These machines cost about $150,000. By the time the lease fees and interest was paid it was more like $250,000. You could also add 16 track direct to disk recording. Complete studio for $400,000.
The audio/specification/power standard the Synclavier set back in 1985-1987 still mops the floor with a lot of today's sample systems. And the machine has progressed since then.
Now... "does it sound any good?"
(I cannot believe I'm even attempting this!)
IMO - rhythmically impeccable, sonically perfect, emotionally heartless.
inside OSFA is says it was made during the same time as 'our next record (coming soon)', which is this? That was a reference to the Roxy album.
listening to WOIIFTM and Concentration Moon, now I've no idea what the song is saying, maybe I haven't listened hard enough, but is it something to do with switching the lyrics to get: 'concentration camp, over the moon in the valley' ?? The song refers to an alleged "program" that the CIA had in which they'd test LSD on the general public (the hippies) and then ship them off to the deserted WW2 internment camps if things got nasty. This alleged program was also suggested as a solution to the 'undesirables' that were causing so much trouble protesting the Viet Nam War... ("Drag a few creeps away in a bus")
Uncle Meat is £14.99, and that's on Amazon.co.uk, anywhere I can get it cheaper y'know? Nope... Half.com? Ebay? I don't really know.
Okay, let's see; yup, that's all of them.
May you never say we don't answer your questions again...
SOFA
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Frank Zappa / The Blue Light / Re:Poole Continuity
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on: December 10, 2003, 03:59:39 AM
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I understand the concept of the poodle or modified dog as being a symbol for the repressed or modified-by-society average american, as that's the only interpretation I've theard that works on the levels of so many songs that mention them.
But I think the subject, because it is so vast, deserves more discussion. Here, bring up a song that mentions poodles or dogs or says "arf" in it and try to interpret the meaning of its use, if there is any.
I tend to accept FZ's own explanation for the proo-liffer-ashum of poodle references in his work: he stated that he used poodles (and other bits of linking CC) in his work the same way that Rembrandt used brown paint in all of his colors for painting - to add a "texture" or quality that unifies the work, without that texture "taking over" the work. This explanation works well when one considers how many times the dog reference pops up, and in all the different 'circumstances' in which it appears.
The 'brown' is there, not necessarily to be taken as a statement of brown, but to provide continuity between disparate works...
Or not.
SOFA |
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138
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Another newbie
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on: December 09, 2003, 03:13:07 PM
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PS why isn't forum very active? Zappa.com's is very compared to this. Well Tim, we at KUR prefer Quality over Quantity...
There IS a drivel factor, just ask anyone - but zappa.com's drivel factor is a huge, throbbing, pulsating, engorged, purplish monster compared to KUR's...
And that's the way we like it!
SOFA |
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139
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Favorite of the '88' Tour
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on: December 02, 2003, 03:02:20 PM
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I like them all of course! But, I selected Make a Jazz Noise Here because I like the "treatment" given to FZ numbers in a Big Band, rather than Orchestral, setting.
I think this is what Ed Palermo is/was after...
SOFA |
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Zappa Circa - groupies
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on: December 02, 2003, 02:59:24 PM
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This is only Zappa "related" More related than I think you realized, Salty. Checking out the site, I also found a single by Wild Man Fischer and Mark Mothersbaugh, a couple of tracks about "backwards masking" and the evil of Rock Lyrics (a la the PMRC), some singles by 'Jim and Tammy' Baker, and even a track by the "Canarsie" High School Band!
(Okay, that last one was a real stretch, I admit.)
A very cool site in all; thanks!
SOFA |
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141
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Another newbie
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on: November 26, 2003, 01:38:54 PM
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I'm not made of money so buying everything isn't an option right now! Did I say you needed to get them all right now?
It took me 15 years - and his death - for me to get all the stuff...
My point was to not "plan" a purchase, but rather...
Oh, never mind.
I downloaded a King Kong video from beefheart.com from 1968 done in England for the BBC, awesome stuff, is it like that on Uncle Meat? Uncle Meat is far more ornate & orchestrated (that BBC track is awesome, aint it?) - and highly recommended. Weasels Ripped My Flesh is also a must have from that era.
I'll mention Joe's Garage - but only for the Watermelon In Easter Hay track. Arguably Frank's finest guitar moment.
Good Luck, Tim!
SOFA |
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Another newbie
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on: November 25, 2003, 04:25:08 AM
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Hello,
my name`s Tim, I'm 21 and from England and just got into Zappa Hello Tim,
Welcome to your new life...
I love HR, BWS, especially Willie The Pimp, Son of Mr Green Genes, Little House..
what albums should I get next if I like those? There's an inherent problem with your question, Tim; even if I 'rated' the recordings you mentioned extremely high on my 'Favo-Zappa' list, I might be liking them for reasons entirely different from yours. So, my recommendations as to what you should buy next are really only applicable to me - you might not be happy with any I'd suggest.
(Yeah, that's stretching it, but I think the point is valid.)
So here's my suggestion - ignore all suggestions. Your next Zappa purchase should be: 1) something by Frank; 2) something available to you; 3) something you can afford. Follow that advice and you will soon be swimming in FZ...
Why be so cavalier in your purchases?
Because, as most any Zappa fan will tell you: 1) sometimes a recording that doesn't pop your cork immediately will grow on you; 2) it's pretty difficult to find a Zappa release that's *unlikeable in its entirety; 3) the more Zappa you have, the more likely you are to listen to tracks that suit your mood for any given occasion.
(*There are a few recordings that seem to make it to someone's "I don't like it" list - a review of this forum will no doubt produce a title or two. But a review will also show that any one person's "top ten" list will change with their mood - indeed, even if the person was bold enough to narrow it down to a top ten.)
Case in point: The Francesco release; it's not one of my favs, but that sucker gets played - usually right around this time of year. And ThingFish; again not one that I would put on a top ten, must have list, but worth owning only for "Brown Moses".
If you try to collect FZ, purchasing only those recordings recommended to you by others, you'll probably end up being disappointed in something - which isn't fair to you, or FZ.
My answer? Collect them all! You're going to want them all in the end anyway; why pigeon-hole them?
And give OSFA a chance; if it doesn't thrill you now, put it away for a couple of months, buy/listen to other stuff for a while, and then go back to it. That recording is one that has a permanent spot on my 'top ten' - regardless of my mood.
Good luck,
SOFA
PS. Just to be a nice guy - Threesome #2 is excellently priced and packaged; a good deal all around. |
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Frank Zappa / Hot Plate Heaven / Re:Can't Play Zappa Live? Why?
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on: November 11, 2003, 03:40:51 PM
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A little food for thought concerning tribute bands and ASCAP fees. I received this from the parent organization of the Group to which I belong:
"If a chapter [Group] has a show that is entirely dedicated to the music of one composer, that show will likely be considered a performance of a “dramatico-musical work” and will have to be licensed separately with ASCAP. The legal web aint quite so plain, it seems...
SOFA |
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:1988, What The Hell Happened?
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on: November 11, 2003, 03:32:04 PM
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...which led to the band falling apart? No. But it may have been a contributing factor to Frank saying "fuck it"...
I don't know; I wasn't there. But I wouldn't discount his illness as having no effect - that's all I'm saying.
Thunes - by everyone's account, including his own - was not an easy guy to get along with. This doesn't forgive Ed and Chad for spearheading the 'dump Scott' campaign; I think it's all relevant to the full picture of what happened...
BTW I think Ed Mann is the one who had spent the longest time in the band - am I right? Actually, if you consider every touring band that FZ played with, including the original Mothers, Roy Estrada was the most long-serving member. Ike comes in a very close second, and Ed third...
SOFA |
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Frank Zappa / Hot Plate Heaven / Re:Can't Play Zappa Live? Why?
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on: November 11, 2003, 07:12:15 AM
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i think we have the right too for complaining and whinging and even carping, just because we love his music! A point well spoken, Sharleena. I never meant to infer that fans shouldn't expect more stuff - especially when it's been promised - nor should they remain silent in the face of apparent ineptitude by the ZFT.
I spoke only for me. Sometimes the vitriol of the 'fans' surprizes me - surprizes because I personally don't feel it. That doesn't mean that it's wrong - I symply find it hard to sympathize, and impossible to empathize.
what would have happen for example, if John Kennedy Toole's mother would have hold out the novel of his death son, just because it was her "right" to do it? The world would have been deprived of A Confederacy of Dunces, a novel from a true genius. A point even better spoken!
Let's take it a step further: what if she had done the above AFTER giving the general public a significant "whif" of what was to come - as the ZFT has done numerous times. Tho' believing in, and trying to live by my earlier comments about expectations, I must admit that I'd be indignant too.
Okay, so maybe I'm beginning to "get it"...
(Two sides to every issue, remember?)
I still think my philosophy is healthier, tho' (I know it is, for me).
SOFA
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Letter of Apology
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on: November 11, 2003, 06:56:36 AM
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I'm sorry for expecting too much. Forgive me for not understanding that in the first place. HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING? JUST WHAT ARE YOU APPOLOGIZING FOR? MY IMPRESSION OF KUR WAS THAT ALL OPINIONS ARE ACCEPTED NOT NECESARILY AGREED TO BUT AT LEAST READ. Everyone here has always had the right to express dissension freely. That's kinda what I thought...
I don't get it.
WHAT IS COMMING ACROSS TO ME IS SOME KIND OF HATRED BECAUSE WE DO LOVE AND LISTEN TO ZAPPA. Everyone has their ways of doing it...and i'd like people to stay rather than leaving. That's kinda what I thought...
I don't get it.
I'd make an offer to go away, if you would do the same. Me? No thanks - I just got back... Watching recess from outside the playground aint much fun.
I would like to say that I've made no point in "attacking" you, BA, or anyone else who's opinions differ from mine. All I did was say "I don't get it"...
Your words don't mean much, though, and I am just going to go away. Of course my words don't mean much! They didn't mean much when you were a newbie slamming OZ; they still don't mean much. And because they're meaningless, you're going to "go away"?
I don't get it...
SOFA
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:1988, What The Hell Happened?
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on: November 10, 2003, 06:03:56 PM
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I don't buy Ed's comments about Frank making some bad decisions due to his health, because Frank didn't even find out he had cancer until 1990.
Think about that one, Chris. Frank found out in 1990 that he had an inoperable tumor, that had most likely existed in his system for almost a decade. Prostate tumors tend to be slow growers, which is why they're cure rate is so high - when detected early...
That tumor, tho not detected, was most certainly there in 1988 affecting his health and demeanor in some way...
SOFA |
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Frank Zappa / Hot Plate Heaven / Re:Can't Play Zappa Live? Why?
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on: November 10, 2003, 05:54:56 PM
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I find it less stressful - and therefor healthier - to appreciate what's out there, rather than complain about what "could be" out there. Frank gave us such a prodigeous body of work, after 30 years of listening I still can wrap my mind around it; something new gets discovered with every listen. There are not too many artists that have that kind of effect on me.
Whining and carping about Gail and the ZFT, and what is "owed" FZ's fans, just doesn't make sense to me. I don't feel that Gail or the ZFT "owe" me anything for my 30 years of support. Considering I still get off on stuff that I purchased eons ago, I figure I owe them. I certainly have had countless hours, days, weeks, years of pleasure listening to Frank's music - more enjoyment than I could ever get anywhere else for the investment I made.
So I make it a point NOT to expect anything in the form of new (or unreleased) music from the Vault. When something does get released, like OZ, or Halloween, it's like Christmas; it's a gift. How can you possibly be disappointed with a gift? (Okay, so there's that tie from Aunt Maude that has sat in the back of your closet for 18 years, but hey - it's still in the closet!) Disappointment occurs when expectations are not met. If you don't "expect" anything, you're rarely disappointed...
She seems to have become everything he fought so hard against.
I'd be willing to admit that there's some logic behind this statement, yet - for the life of me - I can't find it.
Then again, I didn't see the logic in posting that "apology" letter at the ZFT. So, rather than foam at the mouth over all of these "injustices" carried out by the dragonlady Gail, I'll just say "I don't get it" (detractors: if you're totally honest with yourself, you'll say the same - unless you happen to be privy to inside knowledge that is straight from the principals) - just as I "don't get" the above statement...
AFA P/O goes, the gray area gets even more gray. The payment of ASCAP fees DOES allow for the playing of other artist's songs in a live setting (this is actually a legal area with which I'm familiar), it has oddly imposed "limits" - limits that are open to judgement, and therefor argument.
For example (and this is only analogous as an example), I sing with a group that pays yearly ASCAP fees to perform the songs we do. We would be allowed to sing any Rodgers & Hammerstein song we want (the R&H publishing house is very active, and not to be taken lightly). But, if our group chose to sing only the R&H songs from their musical "Oklahoma!", and billed it as "The Windmill Chorus Sings 'Oklahoma!", you can bet we'd be contacted by R&H for "additional" royalty payments. ASCAP fees allow you to perform songs; the don't give you license to lift someone's act...
Don't misunderstand, I've seen some of the major (and a few minor) FZ tribute bands and I believe they perform a vital service by keeping Frank's music "alive". But to do what they do, in the openly public way they do it, I'm afraid it falls short of ASCAP accessibility. Let's face it, P/O, BTU, Grandmothers - these aren't just some bar bands that toss in a little FZ on request, or to be different...
And for that, you need permission. If not from the artist, then from the publishing company that holds the rights. If you don't have that permission, then you take the chance of legal action. It's just that simple - and Ike knows this.
I dunno, maybe I'm getting old - maybe there is too much chemical recreation in my past - but, there's at least two sides to everything and I think many of us do ourselves a disservice by embracing one side (that readily suits our present "need") without giving due and thoughtful consideration to the other...
My two cents.
Seeya Frankie!
It's gonna be weird not having you around...
SOFA
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