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106
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The White Zone / No Commercial Potential / Re:Inca Roads Question
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on: March 04, 2004, 05:35:22 AM
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I've got a bootleg version (somewhere in my collection) of Inca Roads with Sal Marquez on vocals in a sort of Tony Bennet / Sinatra type vocal style - FZ saying "give it swank Sal" in the introduction.
Sorry, I've got no idea at the moment as to when this dates from nor the venue. I've got that same boot, guac! I can't remember the date either... Something in my head is telling me it was in Australia, tho. I think it was right before Sal was fired.
Okay, just checked http://home.swipnet.se/fzshows/73a.html
and it lists the "swank version" of Inca Roads for June 25th. But the song had been around awhile before then.
Cool question; lemme check it out a coupla times...
SOFA |
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107
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The White Zone / The Phoebe Snow Chill Out Room / Re:Whatever happened to all the fun in this forum?
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on: March 04, 2004, 05:27:37 AM
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I have made a few comments or asked a few questions but rarely get a response. Could be that there is little activity or my comments don't ellicit responses of intellectual scrutinization or cyber rage. Hey Noolie! It could be that I somehow missed your post. I enjoy responding to FZ questions and I honestly do look for them when I visit the forum. Don't know how I missed yours.
In answer to your questions; Knirps are / were a manufacturer of rainwear products such as umbrellas and rainjackets. Therefore they are moist in conditions of precipitation. Or used in conditions of precipitation... Guac's answer is quite correct. From what I've researched on that question, FZ saw the word on a name plate attached to an umbrella stand on his first trip to London with the MOI. He liked the word.
At another point in time (possibly the secound UK tour?), someone in the band mentioned the qualities of one of the groupies, and commented that the moisture she generated when aroused warranted the use of an umbrella. This humorous aside morphed not only into the phrase "Knirps for moisture", but also into the song "Little Umbrellas". It became part of the band's "road lore".
This is a guess on my part, but I blame Bunk for the original comment about the groupie. From what I've read, Bunk got the most "action"...
SOFA
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108
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:What's your opinion of Dweezil?
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on: March 03, 2004, 05:11:25 AM
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I'd love to hear Automatic, but I don't download music (I've heard bits and pieces of it on CDNOW). Would anybody recommend buying this album? I mean overall is it a good solid album?
Tho I do download music, I purchased Automatic - it was in a cut-out bin, so the price was reduced (I'll admit I might have had to think twice had the disk been the usual 18 - 20 bucks); I think I paid $10.
And I will admit that I bought it for one track (that I'd not heard, but had heard OF), "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch"...
(Okay, so I like Dr. Suess too.)
I will also admit that I was delighted to find it "a good solid album", even tho' I was not expecting such. The first two tracks are a bit pedestrian - sorta a Van Halen / Satriani kind of infused, instumental guitar romp. But then came track 3 - the theme from the 'Hawaii Five-o' TV show - and it blew me away. The entire song was a vehicle for brass when it first came out (in the heyday of Chicago, Blood Sweat & Tears, Chase, etc.) and Dweez recreates the sound, using only a guitar. It's simply amazing.
The Grinch track follows and, had the rest of the recording sucked, I would have been happy with just that one. But there were more delights to come. '12 String Thing' and 'Secret Hedges' show another side of Dweezil's playing - on accoustic guitar - that is haunting and emotive, and not merely an excercise in "fast".
But the highlight came with the next two tracks: 'Habanera' & 'Les Toreadors' from Bizet's "Carmen". Faithful recreations of two orchestral masterpieces, done on guitar...
There's also a nifty little stab at humor with the spoken word 'Dick Cinnamon's Office' and I won't spoil that for you with a description - but it's damn funny.
So, I find it a very "solid" album. Granted, most of the tracks that excite me were not composed by Dweezil, but they're interpretted beautifully. Out of all the material out there from Dweezil and Z, I enjoy this release the most.
And, it's not so old that you can't find it in the stores.
SOFA |
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110
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:fz in print
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on: March 02, 2004, 03:14:23 PM
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TRFZB is a given - a necessity for the Zappa fan, and a fun read for the mildly curious.
That leaves "the rest": (ranking is my own, FWIW)
1) Slaven's Electric Don Quixote is the best "large" book; easy (and fun) to read, without a lot of 'judgement' prose by the author. Informative.
2) Russo's Cosmik Debris is the best "small" book; also easy to read, with tons of info for the collector / fan (btw, small and large refer to length, not size).
3) Watson's Negative Dialectics...; a "huge" book, a bitch to read, with a ton of annoying (and sometimes laughable) crap that passes for critical analysis of FZ's work, yet undeniably a well-researched and informative tome that has earned a right to be respected in the published pantheon of FZ material.
4) Federico's Zappology; like Watson without the bullshit, well researched with a lot of interesting insights. And FREE (forgot the link, Chris; little help here?) to view on line. For heaven's sake, don't READ it online - download and save that sucker. It's worthy.
I consider these 4 the Major works of which I'm aware. There are a lot of Minor works out there, all with differing levels of research, inside knowledge, and opinion. Some titles / authors off the top of my head: Mother!/Gray; Viva Zappa!/Chevalier; Visual Documentary & In His Own Words/Miles; Necessity Is/James; Zappa Companion/Kostelanetz; No Commercial Potential/Walley... There are many more.
Avoid: Mother! Is the Story of Frank Zappa by Michael Grey and Being Frank by Nigey Lennon.
They're crap. I own both, and don't fully agree with the above - at least, I'd never say 'avoid' them... Anything that sheds possible light on our enigmatic hero is worth a read - if only once.
Now, if crap is what you're into, go for "I'm With The Band" by Pam Des Barres. There are some insights in there, but you have to wade thru Pamela's awful prose to get to it...
SOFA
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111
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Ahmet Urtagen?
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on: March 02, 2004, 05:29:59 AM
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who was the inspiration... May favorite Zappa Trivia argument!
the nomer of one FZ's betrothed THAT would be Gail ; )
There are two explanations of which I'm aware:
1) FZ named him after Ahmet Ertegun
2) FZ named him after an "imaginary servant" of the Zappa household in the early days with Gail (as in, "Ahmet? More tea, please.")
Frank cited both in interviews (never together, that I recall, only one or the other); Gail cited #2 in the "Rock Wives" book.
I was given the interview with Howard Stern (circulating with the title "Advanced Weinie Talk") as proof that the inspiration was #1.
I don't buy it, personally...
It's a question that will probably never have a concrete answer - which is what makes it a great topic of conversation. Personally, I've always felt that #2 was more believable...
SOFA |
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112
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Frank Zappa / The Blue Light / Re:underatted FZ humor
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on: March 02, 2004, 05:17:00 AM
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Just had to drop in here... s'been awhile. Hey Dogbreath! Good to see ya!
I was listening to WRMF today...A highly underated album in general I think. Couldn't agree more with that...
a really good album, but one thing i don't like about the album is the title track "Weasels Ripped My Flesh", I can't get myself to listen to the whole track... I feel your pain there. Tho I enjoy all of the music on WRMF, I rarely listen to the entire recording as it stands. I have most of the songs spread out over several CD compilations (for a clue to what I refer, visit: http://www.thebignote.com/archived/cat_graphic_effect.php [watch the wrap] and click on either one of the "Hit Parade" links) and I really prefer them in this manner over the WRMF release itself.
I should go back and listen again tho'. Like Dogbreath says, "s'been awhile".
Also to avoid another post... We're pulling for you, Bro. Maintaining control is where it's at. FZ would agree on that.
SOFA
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113
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The White Zone / The Phoebe Snow Chill Out Room / Re:Whatever happened to all the fun in this forum?
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on: March 02, 2004, 04:31:12 AM
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I guess if I want a stimulating conversation, I'd better start one, eh?
Oh yeah, I did.
Now THAT's what I'm talking about! This thread is a discussion and that's what (I think) this forum is all about!
Hey, guys, why blame always that boot-stuff?
It's not really a matter of "blame", Balint (at least, wasn't intended to be), but just pointing out a situation that could change with very little effort. And I think some real discussion has been generated by my little "rant" - which was the intention all along.
I might be wrong, but it seems to me that because of the lots of threads - for a person (especially for a newbie) it might be a confusing, a "too much" thing at first sight, and also it can be depressing, that in each threads there are only 2-3 or four comments. It can take REALLY long time to get an idea, what discussions are going on here.
I'd never thought of what you describe as a problem, until you mentioned it and I guess I can see what you mean. A first time visitor (with lots to say, and questions to ask) could easily take one look at the long list of topics, and say, "Where to start?".
I cannot think of a remedy for this, unfortunately. I don't think making the topics more narrow is the answer, tho'.
I was trying to be funny. I admit it hardly ever works, especially on Mondays.
I laughed, Chris! I bet guac did too...
Lets keep this forum alive by popping in, write a post and see where it's going.
Precisely, ST, the point that I attempted to make...
Part of the FZ experience for me is (since we really have no 'new' work coming from our hero) experiencing the music, the lyrics, the humor again and again. The best is to re-experience in a "new" way - like when someone else gives you a "new" perspective.
Chris' research, and the wonderful fruit of it, owes itself to interpreting FZ's recorded work. You can bet that he loves another point of view - another way to look at it, a way to make it fresh and new again...
My feelings for the Uncle Beat thread (of which, I am all in favor; I - ahem - gave title to the category) are of missed potential. I would just LOVE it if one of the vine receivers posted a new thread about something different, or exciting that they heard in their "new" - to them - FZ music.
Yeah, yeah, THAT's the ticket! Let's here about that great solo from the Ahoy, or about the Secret Word from 'The Big One'. Don't consider this a challenge, kids, consider it begging...
"Please hear my plea!"
Music is the Best,
SPFA |
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114
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:What's your opinion of Dweezil?
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on: February 29, 2004, 06:29:30 PM
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I think Dweezil is immensely talented and, as a 'technician' of the guitar, probably surpasses his Dad...
That said, let's think about Frank's "artistry" for a moment. If you boil it all down, Frank was a mathmetician (sp?) - a scientist, of a sort. What he did, and well, was "order and arrange things according to their numeric value against other things with differing values" - a physicist, if you will, who worked in the realm of sound. He called it 'composition'. He was a composer.
And he worked at, perfected, his craft over a long period of time. But his true ability was to "see" the music in his head, to transpose those numbers into 'molecular protruberences' that created a desired effect in the receptor. This he started doing at a very early age.
Now I don't know if that is something that can be taught. I think it's genetic; you're born with something like that. Like perfect pitch, it's a gift...
And if that's what you're referring to when you ask if any of Frank rubbed off on Dweezil, then I gotta say no - not a whit.
Not a heap, or a lump, or a smidgeon...
I think if any of FZ's compositional talent had "rubbed off" on Dweez, we'd have experienced it by now.
And this is not to say that Dweezil can't write songs... But he simply isn't a composer in Frank's league.
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115
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Frank Zappa / The Blue Light / Re:What ever happened to...
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on: February 21, 2004, 06:09:17 PM
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An addendum, not a response, to the previous post:
(Yes, I'm pushing for dialog here, but not so hard up as to have it with myself.)
According to Jon Naurin, at the donlope lyrics site, the unreleased verse contained -
She burned her leg on a tail-pipe then
and yelled "Shit-a-ree!", and puked again. which I don't think is right... Of course, if Bianca's rendition is the only one with which he's familiar, it makes some sense, as you can hardly understand anything she sings thanks to her drawl.
But I've listened to that verse sung on a number of occasions and I'd swear that Chrissie shouts "Chivary" - not "Shit-a-ree".
From what I gather, a "Chivary" is a raucous gathering outside a newlywed's bedroom. Well-wishers gather outside the chamber, and make a bunch of noise - banging on pots and pans, yelling 'chivary', sometimes firing guns into the air - all in a attempt to "interupt" the newlywed's supposed 'first time together'.
So, I kinda assumed that "Chivary" in this instance is meant to denote a rebel yell, a "Yee-Haaaw" if you will. It's archaic, granted and maybe that's why the verse got dumped? I dunno. |
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116
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The White Zone / The Phoebe Snow Chill Out Room / Re:Whatever happened to all the fun in this forum?
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on: February 21, 2004, 05:49:51 PM
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But, you're right a forum should be used primairly for discussions. Hey, why don't we ask Isaac Baranoff back in
Ouch! Good point, Bobo...
And I really meant no offense to those who are taking advantage of the vines; sharing FZ's music with others (especially others who'll appreciate it) is what it's all about.
I was really more bemoaning the fact that vine posts were ALL that was being posted lately. And for one who doesn't need/care to participate in that, it makes for rather dry reading.
I'm well aware that my finger pointing allowed at least 3 other fingers to point my way. I guess if I want a stimulating conversation, I'd better start one, eh?
Oh yeah, I did.
Thanks for your input, Bobo!
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117
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Frank Zappa / Strictly Critique / Re:Did FZ censor himself?
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on: February 21, 2004, 05:41:15 PM
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Yeah, I checked that out. But this is what confused me:
From: Jon Naurin
This extra set of verse + chorus was sung at each show of the 76/77 tours, but not released officially. So it would appear that FZ had that verse going before, AND after, the recording of LINY. I'm going to have to dig out my CT's of those shows and have another listen. I don't recall that verse being in there.
Thank you for your input, Balint!
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118
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The White Zone / The Phoebe Snow Chill Out Room / Whatever happened to all the fun in this forum?
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on: February 21, 2004, 06:30:06 AM
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"Once upon a time the idea was good...
But then they went and done what they said they would.
It aint no better, they're making it worse,
the KUR Forums got the gardener's curse"
This is just an observation, not really a bitch or complaint, but I've noticed that discussion of FZ in these Forums has dwindled until of late all we're left with is "Ooo! Gimme, gimme." I guess I'd be a little more in favor of Uncle Beat (and the gardeners) if something was generated other than lists of members. Watching the vines grow is much akin to watching grass grow...
Again, I have nothing against the gardeners - I collect the music myself. But doesn't this influx of "new" FZ provide any stimulus for conversation. Do you hoard the stuff, and not bother to listen, or what?
I guess, as a non-paricipant in the lastest new trend here, I'm feeling a little left out.
Chris, guac, LCS - am I alone here?
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120
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Frank Zappa / The Blue Light / What ever happened to...
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on: February 21, 2004, 06:12:59 AM
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"It was Eleven O'Clock upon a Friday night,
You know the girl and me was feeling outa sight.
Well we had 20 Reds and a big ol' pile o' weed;
You know she drank some wine and then she LSDeed.
Chrissie puked twice and jumped on my bike.
She yelled "Fire it up, because you know what I like".
She burned her leg on the tailpipe then
And yelled "Chivary" - and puked again."
Does this verse appear in any live recordings after the Palladium shows and if not, when did it 'disappear'?
(Yes, this same question appears in Strictly Critique - but I have my reasons for this.) |
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