Frank Zappa - The Wiki

[Bálint]

About the biography:

As it seems it all started from FZlyrics' chronology-page. I think Biography is something different, It should be (I thing) a fun-to-read STORY, which is - of course - correct, with some dates also and some numbers - but if it is ONLY a huge list, than nobody will want to read it.

Yes, it would be really good to make a fine chronology - a list, with all the recording and tour and other dates and tiny details - but hey, this is a BIOGRAPHY!

We found one on vh1.com and stole it and worked on it a little, here it is:

Biography

No, I dont say that it should be copied, but it could be a first step, to start with, and modify it later. Or any biography like this - but again: I dont think it should be a list only.

What do YOU think?

B

[emdebe]

We found one on vh1.com and stole it and worked on it a little... No, I dont say that it should be copied, but it could be a first step, to start with, and modify it later. Or any biography like this...

Once upon a blue Monday, we had the Wikipedia version for starters... but it didn't last long. The suggestion was, then, to create one of our own. I think the suggestion still holds.

[Bálint]

We are taklkinga about the same thing (or at least I think so). Yes, we should make our own version - it was just a sample. My suggestion was: we sould make a Biography, rather than a list of facts. That's all I wanted to say.

[emdebe]

As it seems it all started from FZlyrics' chronology-page. I think Biography is something different, It should be (I thing) a fun-to-read STORY, which is - of course - correct, with some dates also and some numbers - but if it is ONLY a huge list, than nobody will want to read it. Yes, it would be really good to make a fine chronology - a list, with all the recording and tour and other dates and tiny details - but hey, this is a BIOGRAPHY!

Yes, we should create a STORY-like article, but with a certain STRUCTURE (the headings on the page), and with the right FACTS (what you call the "list"). The "FZ Lyrics & Elsewhere" chronology tables seem to be a good starting point.

I merely tried to find a way to get the ball rolling, but maybe it should have been better to do that on the "Talk" section of the page, although I don't know if most people would have taken a look over there.

Anyway, what I've done so far is certainly not cast in stone, and any suggestions (about the structure, the facts, and the way to collaborate on the Biography page) are welcome.

[Dunk]

What do YOU think?

I think this is a good example of the problem of using other peoples articles

Your biography at http://www.zappa.hu/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=82
says...  Mount St. Mary's College in 1962
(This date comes from an interview with FZ himself see: http://members.tripod.com/~arf_she_said/fzints/mother1.html
which no doubt will be pasted into the Wiki - hopefully with footnotes correcting FZ's faulty memories.)

Your page:  http://www.zappa.hu/modules.php?name=Discography&file=index&func=disc_detail&lID=41#6
says... Mount St. Mary's College, LA May 19, 1963

Not too hard to correct... But we have only just begun the wiki and we have nearly 2500 pages of articles.... all of which have potential for such cut and paste errors

[emdebe]

... But we have only just begun the wiki and we have nearly 2500 pages of articles.... all of which have potential for such cut and paste errors

Are you suggesting we need to reduce the number of pages in the Wiki? Or: that we need to fill them up first? What exactly are you suggesting?

[Bálint]

I was just watching this and that, and found tons of skeleton pages - and sorry to say, but I think the ONLY thing there is to be done with them is to delete as mush as we can. The hugest ones are the ones with "indexes:

Them or us (list),


and I wont link no more, you can see all the "lists" ut there in Them Or Us (The List)

It WAS a huge work - and it WILL BE a huge one to delete it all. I dont think the list should be deleted, but the empty articles behind them - otherwise noone knows where is an empty link, and which one is a "full" one.

A few hundred pages!!!!!

And I think we will have to also search for empty pages, and delete them. I don't know, might there be a kind of "time-maschine" to bring a previous state back? Or might emdebe have a list of these?

What do you think?

B

[Bálint]

Heym, Barry, hey, anyone!!!

I was taking a look at the wiki again, and saw that this time RDNZL had worked a lot - really fine, but it seems that we have more and more skeleton pages...

I wrote him a letter, but for further collaboration I need some help. I dont have too much time, but I'ld like to take part in the discography section, but for this I'd need a "normal", chronological discography, like it was before. I dont know how to bring it back or how to create it cleverly, so I ask anyone to help me in this. Then I could make my little contributions there.

And: last time I didnt get to much respionses - everybody is tired of this? Or too much work/other things? Or where are "we"?

Thanks:

B

[Barry]

Hey Balint,

Sorry for my late response. I've been trying to locate this chronological discography page you're talking about, but couldn't find it... Can you give a clue as to whereabouts you saw it? I could have a go at retrieving it. And yes, RDNZL is doing a lot of great work out there but it would be nice to have him participate in the talks we're having over here.

[Barry]

Doh, I'm a certified idiot. There's a chronological discography on the Biography page! I know, go figure...

What I suggest Balint is: hit the edit button on that page, copy the contents, and paste it on your Userpage (User:Balint). That way you'll have your chronological discog, and we can restart the Biography by um putting a biography up there for instance.

Edit: I've gone and copy/pasted the chron. discog to your usertalk page Balint - here it is...

Edit 2: Copy/pasted zappa.hu's biography text in the Biography page. This is to be considered a rough draft, still needs some wikifying at this point.

[Bálint]

Last time I "completed" the album Zoot Allures, today I "finished" Freak Out! and the first half of Absolutely Free.

Of course, "completeing" does not mean that its totally finished, but they are usable. I completed the lyrics, most of the notes, and thing I felt to do.

Anyone: feel free to correct or continue!!!!

*

Question: I'm a bit confused about the singles, the way they are presented: first it shows the single with the 2 or 3 songnames, then shows the 2 or 3 songs again... Cant we make a better way to show it?

and:
I dont think it to be a good idea to present bootleg albums here. Or is it? There are way too many of them, makes the whole thing too difficult. But: they shlould NOT be among the official releases, I'm sure. I made some clearing in this field.

What do you think?

[Bálint]

Well:

I've "finished" Absolutely Free - surprisingly lots of stuff were missing: half of the lyrics, some mess between the releases, etc. A few things are missing: just a few notes to 2-3 songs. And yes: any additions, corrections, suggestions welcome!

Anyone: how about joining me on this "completing project"? Then we'd hav things that are ready, and we'd be happy then. I think that should be one of our goals. Yes.

We could go in a chronological way, or any other way, but the former would me more clean way to do it. And as I remember I "completed" last time Zoot Allures, so that is 3 albums.

I've left a few for you, too. ;-)

B

[Bálint]

I did ask it a efw times before, but no answer came - and things went on as usual, the opposite way I suggested. Does it mean that my idea was wrong?

So that suggestion was: lets go step by step, album after album, chronologically - thus we'll have (almost) complete parts, and we'll know, where we are. I already "finished" the first 3 albums or so, dont anyone feel like joining?...

*

and:
I dont think that bootlegs and other non-official albums shuold be listed the same place as the ofiicial ones. OK, I can change it but it would be better if none of us would work twice.

And: do you all agree the wy the singles are presented? The "title" of them are the 2 contained songs, and after it we find that 2 songs - again! Now as a link. Why is it doubled this way? What do you think?

A sample - as it is now (Who Are the Brain Police?):


Records On Which This Song Has Appeared
[edit]Singles
Trouble Comin' Every Day / Who Are the Brain Police? - The Mothers Of Invention (1966)

Trouble Comin' Every Day (05:50)
Who Are The Brain Police? (03:33)
Who Are the Brain Police? / Trouble Comin' Every Day - The Mothers Of Invention (1966)

Who Are The Brain Police? (03:33)
Trouble Comin' Every Day (05:50) - doubled two times??? Why?... Is it one single or two different ones?

Zappa Albums & Side Projects
Freak Out! (1966) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Mothermania (1969) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Frank Zappa y The Mothers of Invention (1972) ~ "¿Quien Es el Cerebro de la Tira?" - what is this?
Pop History Volume 11 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 14 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 6 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 7 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Preg-Nant (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
The Old Masters Box I Sampler (1985) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
The Old Masters, Box I (1985) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - a box, not an album
The Supplement Tape (1990) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Panta From Brain Police Meets Frank Zappa (1999) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Threesome No. 1 (2002) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - a box, not an album
Battle of Eric Burdon & the Animals and the Mothers of Invention (?) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Disconnected Synapses (1992) ~ Frank Zappa & The Mothers - should be listed as beat the boots

*

yes, I can correct these, but it would be most important to agree in things, and follow this agreement. Remember: it must be a correct source, and none of us should work twice.

What do you think?

[Barry]

I did ask it a efw times before, but no answer came - and things went on as usual, the opposite way I suggested. Does it mean that my idea was wrong?

No I don't think so. It's just I guess that most (not all) wiki-dwellers are not forum-dwellers and vice versa (with the odd exception such as you or me or Dunk) - by which I mean that they probably did not read your post here.

So that suggestion was: lets go step by step, album after album, chronologically - thus we'll have (almost) complete parts, and we'll know, where we are. I already "finished" the first 3 albums or so, dont anyone feel like joining?...

The thing is that those who contribute to the wiki each have their own favorite "section". Some like to add stuff to the concerts/tours section, others like to add to the bandmembers/sidemen bio's, others like to add just plain obscure stuff (cue Seinfeld: "not that there's anything wrong with that!"). I have nothing against a scheduled, more "organized" way of working, but getting everyone else to line up is another can of beans.

I dont think that bootlegs and other non-official albums shuold be listed the same place as the ofiicial ones. OK, I can change it but it would be better if none of us would work twice.

Well, as far as I can tell, this depends on which page you're looking at. There's an Official Albums category where you won't find any bootlegs or non-official albums. Then there's the main Discography category where everything is listed. How would you change this? Take non-official albums out of the Discography category?

And: do you all agree the wy the singles are presented? The "title" of them are the 2 contained songs, and after it we find that 2 songs - again! Now as a link. Why is it doubled this way? What do you think?
A sample - as it is now (Who Are the Brain Police?):

Might this have been a typo? It's not the regular way songs are listed on other Singles pages...

Zappa Albums & Side Projects
Freak Out! (1966) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Mothermania (1969) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Frank Zappa y The Mothers of Invention (1972) ~ "¿Quien Es el Cerebro de la Tira?" - what is this?
Pop History Volume 11 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 14 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 6 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Pop History Volume 7 (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Preg-Nant (1972) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
The Old Masters Box I Sampler (1985) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
The Old Masters, Box I (1985) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - a box, not an album
The Supplement Tape (1990) ~ The Mothers Of Invention
Panta From Brain Police Meets Frank Zappa (1999) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Threesome No. 1 (2002) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - a box, not an album
Battle of Eric Burdon & the Animals and the Mothers of Invention (?) ~ The Mothers Of Invention - what is this?
Disconnected Synapses (1992) ~ Frank Zappa & The Mothers - should be listed as beat the boots

- As for your "what is this" questions: that's up for the person who edited the page to answer.
- "Disconnected Synapses" : adding a link to BTB would be appropriate, yes.

What do you think?

Well there's my thoughts. Everyone else please feel free to add comments. I've been out of the loop at the wiki for some time now, and the amount of work being done there is simply amazing. I wish I could contribute more but at work it's not possible most of the time (a clandestine little response like this not withstanding), and I'm generally pretty busy these days...

[emdebe]

I did ask it a efw times before, but no answer came - and things went on as usual, the opposite way I suggested.

Welcome to the (Wiki) world!